Liferaft servicing- I can't belieeeve it!

[duncan99210]

D

Out of the raft, or out of the vacuum-pack bag?

The bag is heat-sealed to close it, like a supermarket leg of lamb. Even if you can apply the vacuum using a hoover, how do you seal the bag up?

Pete

On my raft, a Seago, the bag is well longer than it needs to be. One end is designed to be cut off to allow the removal of the raft for servicing. To reseal the bag, it is simply folded over a couple of times and retained in place with tape. There is a small valve at the opposite end to which you attach a dinghy pump with the appropriate nozzle. Set the pump to suck not blow, suck all the air out. Job done....

 

[Roberto]

Sandyman, would you be able to describe, step by step, how you go about servicing your liferaft?

you may find this useful

 

[Robert Wilson]

you may find this useful

Very good, thank you.
That's the first time I've seen inside a liferaft - and I hope I never see one in use!!

 

[pvb]

That's the first time I've seen inside a liferaft - and I hope I never see one in use!!

Anyone with a liferaft would be well-advised to go along to see it inflated at service. You'll get an idea of how small it is, how it's laid out, where the emergency bits are located, etc. And you'll have the opportunity of perhaps adding some extra items if you want, like extra water, etc. If you don't mind paying for a new gas canister, it's also worth (once) experiencing setting the thing off by pulling the painter - it takes a surprisingly strong tug to inflate it.

 

[[3889]]

That's precisely why I decided to sell the liferaft that came with my boat (valise, so impractical anyway) and do without.

Me too. On a finite budget there are better value options for safety kit.

 

[dom]

As a matter of interest, how many of those who don't favour liferafts have thought about survival suits as an alternative?

 

[[3889]]

Yes nearly,18 hrs.

But in 1976? Nowadays I prefer a 2nd plb / epirb to a raft.

 

[GrahamM376]

But in 1976? Nowadays I prefer a 2nd plb / epirb to a raft.

Trouble is, the plb won't stop you getting hypothermia before the services arrive. It will aid recovery though.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Anyone with a liferaft would be well-advised to go along to see it inflated at service. You'll get an idea of how small it is, how it's laid out, where the emergency bits are located, etc. And you'll have the opportunity of perhaps adding some extra items if you want, like extra water, etc. If you don't mind paying for a new gas canister, it's also worth (once) experiencing setting the thing off by pulling the painter - it takes a surprisingly strong tug to inflate it.

Sound advice, all round. I shall try to arrange that next time.
I also like the idea of extra PLBs and/or EPIRBs. And yes, I do have survival suits on board, with my grab-bag.

A very useful thread.

 

[KAM]

The other point to remember is that most life rafts are designed and tested (hopefully) for a worst case environment. Typically that may be with the raft in service on deck all year in the tropics. If like me you sail for 6 months of the year in a temperate climate and stow the raft in a dry position the service interval will be much much longer. 'Servicing' the raft more regularly than necessary is probably doing more harm than good. All the packing and unpacking in maybe a less controlled environment than the original manufacturing process will add wear and tear. Each time components are disturbed there is more chance of an error. I would also question the idea of trying to seal the package. Unless the package is truly hermetic.

 

[prv]

I would also question the idea of trying to seal the package.

Every single liferaft manufacturer disagrees with you, though.

Vacuum packing protects the raft, allowing the now-standard three-year service interval whereas non-vacuumed rafts are supposed to be done annually. It also allows them to pack into a smaller container which is critical on many boats.

Interesting to hear from other posters about DIY resealing, though. I had assumed that it required special equipment, like a giant version of the machines some people use to vacuum pack meat.

Pete

 

[Aquarella]

I have my boat in Greece and sent the liferaft to the authorized service station in Athens in 2012. The one I got back wasn't mine! No amount of protesting worked. I have now no idea how old it is nor the condition of it. Just hope I will never need it!

 

[[3889]]

Trouble is, the plb won't stop you getting hypothermia before the services arrive. It will aid recovery though.

I'm not suggesting beacons are a panacea -just a better investment in safety than a raft for distances up to 50 miles offshore - i.e. x-channel, IMHO, where I would expect a heli to arrive within 6 hours of sending a distress.

 

[KAM]

Every single liferaft manufacturer disagrees with you, though.

Vacuum packing protects the raft, allowing the now-standard three-year service interval whereas non-vacuumed rafts are supposed to be done annually. It also allows them to pack into a smaller container which is critical on many boats.

Interesting to hear from other posters about DIY resealing, though. I had assumed that it required special equipment, like a giant version of the machines some people use to vacuum pack meat.

Pete

Looking at the video above. I don't see how it is possible to seal around the painter rope which runs through the bag. I am not sure what material is being used for the bag but unless there is a metal film its very difficult to get a good seal. They don't seem to do any sort of leak check to make sure the bag has been sealed correctly. Water vapour (remember its a gas) permeability through the bag material, through the painter or through sealing defects will result in the inside atmosphere reaching equilibrium with the outside air. If the raft is outside and subject to temperature cycling then there is a risk that moisture will start to build up inside. Much better to have drain holes and not worry about sealing. Manufacturers claim rafts are hermetically sealed but this is meaningless without stating leak rates. Maybe the quality manufacturers have the necessary materials and processes to ensure an extremely good seal but I doubt if it would be any better than a properly designed container with drain holes. Better to have a means of letting water out than an imperfect sealing system. The main benefit of the vacuum pack is to get it into the container. My old Dunlop raft still looked like new after 15 years storage on deck without a vacuum bag.

Just another point I did not see them change the seal on the gas bottle or use a torque wrench. There is nothing in the video that could not easily be done in a couple of hours at home. Even checking the pressure relief valves is straightforward.

 

[Robert Wilson]

The other point to remember is that most life rafts are designed and tested (hopefully) for a worst case environment. Typically that may be with the raft in service on deck all year in the tropics. If like me you sail for 6 months of the year in a temperate climate and stow the raft in a dry position the service interval will be much much longer. 'Servicing' the raft more regularly than necessary is probably doing more harm than good. All the packing and unpacking in maybe a less controlled environment than the original manufacturing process will add wear and tear. Each time components are disturbed there is more chance of an error.

Problem there is, that a required "3 year Insurance Survey" will pick-up Service Date is "out of date" and may affect insurance cover/premium.

I have no definitive proof of that, but insurers being what they are, might it be that a claim is refused or renewal cover affected?
Who would decide if storage/environment reduces the service interval - and how?

 

[prv]

I don't see how it is possible to seal around the painter rope which runs through the bag.

I don't know how it's done either, but I used to have an old Plastimo valise raft that hadn't been serviced for nearly ten years. The inner bag inside the valise was still tightly vacuumed into a rock-hard block. If there was any sort of leak into the bag it would have relaxed a little over the years.

Much better to have drain holes and not worry about sealing

So why don't they? It would be cheaper and easier for them, yet no manufacturer does it that way.

Pete

 

[dom]

When I opened an obsolete Bombard raft - five years past its last service - it was also in a rock hard vacuum package. I honestly, though am happy to be corrected, do not believe that manufacturing techniques have not been devised to create a reliable vacuum.

Moreover, if a manufacturer wants their raft stored in a certain way (i.e. vacuum packed) I would be more than a little nervous leaving it in an open container.

 

[KAM]

Interesting question. My many various insurance companies and surveyors have never shown much interest in the life raft other than to comment that its overdue inspection. I suppose I could write up an inspection report and stamp it off myself. When I have crew aboard I always explain the situation and also brief them on how to open the container and inflate it if the automatic system does not work.

Who would decide if storage/environment reduces the service interval - and how?

Me. (engineer with industry experience in the field)

I just wonder how a court would view a a dead crew member due to no life raft versus a dead crew member due to a faulty life raft. Would a service company or manufacturer take responsibility if a life raft failed to deploy. Maybe there is a small sticker somewhere like my handheld VHF which states 'not to be used in an emergency' Should I get my crew to sign a disclaimer after briefing. Interesting questions.

 

[Tormod]

It's great to benefit from so many fellow sailors' individual experiences. I appreciate the response. Going back to the original train of thought, based on the replies, I made a few more enquiries further afield than the Clyde and was pleased to see Nor West Marine in Liverpool offering to save me £170 on the service (including haulage door to door)! The only difference (apart from the fact that it will be impracticable to witness the service) is that they are not manufacturer approved but they are MCA approved, which i believe will suffice nicely! (Purely a leisure boat in my case). It will be returned within 2 weeks as opposed to 6-8 week lead time. I will let you know if it doesn't work out!
With regards, should I bother to have one in the first place, at these relatively high costs? Well, the way I see it, in the scheme of things and the substantial overall cost of the boating life, I think a liferaft is the least I can do to add to safety when I have the pleasure of family and friends with me on board. Just the way I see it and not any any way judging anyone who does not have one. I just like the peace of mind (along with PLB, EPIRB etc)!! Thanks again.

 

[[3889]]

I just wonder how a court would view a a dead crew member due to no life raft versus a dead crew member due to a faulty life raft.

Assuming you are talking about a non-commercial vessel, compliant with all legislation, then the lack of a life raft seems irrelevant to a court's findings. Surely you are not suggesting there is an element of legal negligence in taking someone sailing on a boat without a raft?