Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Peter
Firstly, I do acknowledge your enviable qualifications and treat them with the respect they deserve.
I do completely agree with you and all the other posters who say that a yacht or boat should carry a liferaft. I do not think that a dinghy of any description would be a substitute. In fact if you look at my posts I have never argued otherwise, only saying that I don't carry a raft!
I particularly like Etaps as a yacht, for many reasons. Their ability to stay afloat when holed AND be able to sail is to me a major bonus. Some people chose to ignore the information produced by the manufacture and the historical information reporting their flooded seaworthiness. I don't say you fall into the group.
Perhaps you can confirm the fact that one should always stay with a boat until the last possible moment, a boat being safer and easier to find than a smaller raft? Also safe floating boats being found long after they have been abandoned by their crew. Its on that basis that I argue that a boat that is designed to and has proven itself to safely stay afloat is a beater sanctuary than a liferaft. Yes in certain circumstances a raft is essential and I do often consider that in the event of fire I should be carrying one. In fact if and when I start to sail longer distances off shore and for longer periods then I would install a raft.
The second thrust to my argument is the, that although widely reported, failure of certain types of life raft, (see YM liferaft test and refrerence Philip Watsons experience) people are happy to ignore the unknown area of 'will it inflate', you just don't know until you activate it! People are arguing that a life raft with a 'label on the tin' that says it will open on activation is more reliable than an Etap that is already afloat and has a proven design to stay afloat!
Why will people not accept the facts from a respectable manufacture (Etap), favouring the promise of other manufactures, some of those other products (life rafts) made in China! If you have a boat other than an Etap then you should carry a liferaft for possible evacuation rather than a dinghy.
When I do carry a raft then, we will be covering the safety angle 'belt and braces', other than fire why would I want to leave a floating boat? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
From an article in Boats.com
“Using installed foam is beneficial in some areas. For example, foam inside a forward collision space would keep water from filling that space if the hull is breached, and foam used along the inside of a hull will provide thermal and noise insulation, as well. Since 1970, Etap in Belgium has built a line of sailboats from 20 to 38 feet LOA that are designed to be "unsinkable." Etap can say this with some authority, for its boats are the only line in the world to be granted a certificate of unsinkability by the French Merchant Marine, the only body in the world authorized to issue such pedigrees. Etap achieved this status by incorporating a double-hull construction into its designs. Between each "hull," closed-cell foam is injected that will ensure that the boat not only will stay afloat even when seriously damaged, but also will be able to be sailed!”
The foam in an Etap is NOT just a novelty, you pay about 30% more to have it and is there for a very good reason. It must not be confused with the foam sandwich used in Sadler’s that will only provide positive buoyancy.
Stephen
Firstly, I do acknowledge your enviable qualifications and treat them with the respect they deserve.
I do completely agree with you and all the other posters who say that a yacht or boat should carry a liferaft. I do not think that a dinghy of any description would be a substitute. In fact if you look at my posts I have never argued otherwise, only saying that I don't carry a raft!
I particularly like Etaps as a yacht, for many reasons. Their ability to stay afloat when holed AND be able to sail is to me a major bonus. Some people chose to ignore the information produced by the manufacture and the historical information reporting their flooded seaworthiness. I don't say you fall into the group.
Perhaps you can confirm the fact that one should always stay with a boat until the last possible moment, a boat being safer and easier to find than a smaller raft? Also safe floating boats being found long after they have been abandoned by their crew. Its on that basis that I argue that a boat that is designed to and has proven itself to safely stay afloat is a beater sanctuary than a liferaft. Yes in certain circumstances a raft is essential and I do often consider that in the event of fire I should be carrying one. In fact if and when I start to sail longer distances off shore and for longer periods then I would install a raft.
The second thrust to my argument is the, that although widely reported, failure of certain types of life raft, (see YM liferaft test and refrerence Philip Watsons experience) people are happy to ignore the unknown area of 'will it inflate', you just don't know until you activate it! People are arguing that a life raft with a 'label on the tin' that says it will open on activation is more reliable than an Etap that is already afloat and has a proven design to stay afloat!
Why will people not accept the facts from a respectable manufacture (Etap), favouring the promise of other manufactures, some of those other products (life rafts) made in China! If you have a boat other than an Etap then you should carry a liferaft for possible evacuation rather than a dinghy.
When I do carry a raft then, we will be covering the safety angle 'belt and braces', other than fire why would I want to leave a floating boat? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
From an article in Boats.com
“Using installed foam is beneficial in some areas. For example, foam inside a forward collision space would keep water from filling that space if the hull is breached, and foam used along the inside of a hull will provide thermal and noise insulation, as well. Since 1970, Etap in Belgium has built a line of sailboats from 20 to 38 feet LOA that are designed to be "unsinkable." Etap can say this with some authority, for its boats are the only line in the world to be granted a certificate of unsinkability by the French Merchant Marine, the only body in the world authorized to issue such pedigrees. Etap achieved this status by incorporating a double-hull construction into its designs. Between each "hull," closed-cell foam is injected that will ensure that the boat not only will stay afloat even when seriously damaged, but also will be able to be sailed!”
The foam in an Etap is NOT just a novelty, you pay about 30% more to have it and is there for a very good reason. It must not be confused with the foam sandwich used in Sadler’s that will only provide positive buoyancy.
Stephen
