Lifejackets

[RupertW]

Apologies all

27ft
Sabre 27
Newbie stuff at first

First 6 weeks this season crossing from IOW then pottering round Langstone harbour to build experience

Then more ambitious stuff like cruising the Solent and going to say, the Scillies, over next few years.

But some great insights regardless. Thanks.

I think I buy without a light, then add one (for the experience) when night sailing becomes an option.

Up to you on the light but I would suggest the full kit because you want to be ready to choose between a comfortable night at sea and a dangerous harbour entrance. Same reason for always checking that nav lights are all working.

Before life jackets and harnesses were integrated then harnesses were the essential equipment used with lifejackets sitting in lockers for emergencies so setting up strong points in the cockpit and webbing jackstays to the foredeck are essential tasks.

How often you wear life jacket/harnesses is a matter of personal judgement. Pretty much everybody agrees you should be clipped on if leaving the cockpit in rough weather and all the time at night, and at any other time by personal choice of any crew member but many people have good reasons for much more frequent use.

 

[RJJ]

Why would it be a wind up? ?

People on here have years of experience in knowing what works best

Lifejackets are essential of course I'm just trying to get input before I spend money.

Buoyancy aids are cheaper so I wondered when these were useful or not etc etc

OK here's the basics. A buoyancy aid is an aid to swimming and is designed around mobility for your body - for dinghy sailing, kayaking etc. It won't save your life e.g., by holding your head above significant waves or by turning you face up if knocked unconscious. A very useful bit of kit, but please don't confuse it with a lifejacket.

Then you need to look at the N rating. Typically a basic LJ might be 100N, but a more "offshore" model would likely be between 150-200N rated.

Crutch straps, preferably two, are essential for all purposes. They stop the lifejacket riding up above your shoulders (with your head submerged). IMHO there is no point wearing a LJ without crutch straps, properly adjusted.

Then you are onto "optional extras". Most prefer an integrated harness (then you need something to clip onto, of course). If / when you venture outside the Solent to do extended passages, a hood and light are strongly recommended (compulsory for most offshore races).

I would recommend buying a bundle now rather than saying "let's add the light and hood in due course". You may find it better value.

Finally, it's worth paying more than lip-service to learning how to use the gear. A sea survival course is worth doing; failing that you can buy the book and invest time on youtube. Don't just buy the lifejacket, consider how it's relevant e.g., in a MOB scenario, abandon ship, with or without liferaft etc. Ensure you know how it inflates and deflates - and why you might want to partially deflate it etc.

We have these and like them. if you are on a tight budget, you may find Decathlon worth a look.
Seago Active 190 Automatic Lifejacket | Force 4 Chandlery

 

[Baggywrinkle]

It was the same on my police driving course. However, I'd put wearing an LJ in the same category as putting on your seat belt. Things can go from "No need for it" to "Oh Sh!t" a lot quicker than you can get a jacket from the locker and put it on.

Fair enough, each to his own. Just glad it isn't mandatory like a seat belt ..... but we are wandering into the realms of probability .... for your seat belt example - if I spent my day driving around docks, I wouldn't wear a seat belt due to my risk of ending up in the water being far higher than my risk of a high-speed collision.

PS: There are always situations where one choice or the opposite would have been the better decision. People trapped below deck and unable to escape due to the buoyancy of their life-jackets, people getting hit by the boom, going overboard and drowning due to lack of a life-jacket, people falling in the water on a beautiful day and rendering a serviceable life jacket useless until it can be re-armed .... people catching a life jacket on an errant split-pin or sharp edge and damaging it without noticing, hypothermia or exhaustion setting in before being rescued, or lack of buoyancy due to clothing killing you when a life jacket could have saved you. Leaving the bloody thing in the pub and it getting nicked when it could be safe in a locker on the boat - rendering it useless. I'm glad it's up to individuals to decide, based on their individual circumstances and risk assessment .... it's all part of natural selection is it not? ... some peoples sole purpose in life seems to be to act as an example to others.

 

[PetiteFleur]

My experience is to go to the chandlery and try on different makes. Ladies in particular find some not comfortable at all; automatic of course with crotch strap & lifeline loop or D ring. I always wear mine in the dinghy going to my mooring, just as well as last year I fell in getting into the dinghy when returningto shore... Other times optional depending on circumstances. I would not choose the cheap Chinese ones as they don't come with a gas cylinder or crotch strap or EU tested?

 

[RJJ]

I like a buoyancy aid for the tender. Higher risk of falling in, but only in calm sheltered conditions, and no risk that I can identify of immersion with head injury. Ample chance I can swim to safety or, more likely, back to the tender. If I do fall in, I haven't wasted a firing mechanism that then needs servicing (with the jacket out of action in the meantime).

Plus, it's a less cumbersome and less "attractive" item to take to the pub.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Just the basics?
Seago Classic 190 Life Jacket

165N enough?

Andy at Ocean Sports Tuition (6 Saxon Wharf, Southampton) sells 1-year-old examples of this kind of jacket very cheap.

I have a couple that I use in the tender and have onboard for crew who might join me in nice weather. I think I paid less than £20 each.

IMO the Deckvest 5D is noticeably more comfortable than anything else I've worn. I couldn't bring myself to spend £75 on a lifejacket and not spend the extra to get the best.

 

[ashtead]

What I didn’t mention is there are some good suppliers in Cowes who will supply ones with whatever extras you need -Ocean Safety so you can have a cover naming your boat on in leopard skin print if you wish. -

 

[GrantD]

Andy at Ocean Sports Tuition (6 Saxon Wharf, Southampton) sells 1-year-old examples of this kind of jacket very cheap.

I have a couple that I use in the tender and have onboard for crew who might join me in nice weather. I think I paid less than £20 each.

IMO the Deckvest 5D is noticeably more comfortable than anything else I've worn. I couldn't bring myself to spend £75 on a lifejacket and not spend the extra to get the best.

And on sale because the 6D is out now

Spinlock Deckvest 5D 170N Auto Lifejacket | Force 4 Chandlery

 

[GrantD]

Bouyancy Aids have their place
......earlier today

 

[Caer Urfa]

Do not skimp on your life jacket as at the end of the day 'you are wearing it' and your life better than buying cheap.
Agree with others buy an automatic, with harness, crotch strap, light, hood, whistle, recommend a Crewsaver 190 and try one on first as you need comfort and the right size

 

[GrantD]

Do not skimp on your life jacket as at the end of the day 'you are wearing it' and your life better than buying cheap.
Agree with others buy an automatic, with harness, crotch strap, light, hood, whistle, recommend a Crewsaver 190 and try one on first as you need comfort and the right size

We will, we will buy a good one with whistle, light, hood, harness, strap, MOB point and 150N minimum.

Can't see why anyone would go with manual inflation. You have gone in the water unintentionally, are you even conscious?

And in time will add PLBs

I was at a water park today and got tired, the buoyancy provided by the jacket was very reassuring even though I already had a wetsuit on.

 

[GrantD]

These look good

Exposure OLAS Crew Tag and Strap - Man Overboard System

 

[bitbaltic]

We will, we will buy a good one with whistle, light, hood, harness, strap, MOB point and 150N minimum.

Can't see why anyone would go with manual inflation. You have gone in the water unintentionally, are you even conscious?

And in time will add PLBs

I was at a water park today and got tired, the buoyancy provided by the jacket was very reassuring even though I already had a wetsuit on.

We have PLBs on all five of our lifejackets, based on the idea that they seemed a good idea when we started sailing and the corollary idea that if the skipper has a PLB then so should any day tripper guest.

of course we have never used them and now the batteries are coming to end of life I’m looking at either ditching them when they fail the battery test or spending a lot to replace the batteries or the PLBs generally.

if I was doing it again I probably wouldn’t worry so much for coastal sailing.

 

[GrantD]

We have PLBs on all five of our lifejackets, based on the idea that they seemed a good idea when we started sailing and the corollary idea that if the skipper has a PLB then so should any day tripper guest.

of course we have never used them and now the batteries are coming to end of life I’m looking at either ditching them when they fail the battery test or spending a lot to replace the batteries or the PLBs generally.

if I was doing it again I probably wouldn’t worry so much for coastal sailing.

That's the thing about safety gear you hope you never get any use out of it

 

[William_H]

Around here West Oz any boating in the ocean ie more than a couple of km off the shore requires that you carry lifejackets for all on board. (and radio flares fire extinguisher etc) The inflatable types are popular although foam LJs are acceptable. (sometimes described as MaeWest being bulky with buoyancy behind the head so not comfortable to wear). So in UK although not mandated one would appear to be very irresponsible to not carry LJs for everyone. Indeed you might go so far as to say they should be worn at all times. Certainly I would say any time the wind gets up. Now things are a little different here in that the water is not cold and most people can swim. it can be simply too hot to wear LJ.
At our club we provide for rescue boats a buoyancy vest (along with inflatable LJ). The buoyancy vest is provided for the case where a crew gets into the water to help another sailor. You can swim effectively in a buoyancy vest and have the best chance of working and of climbing back on board unaided. Of course dinghy sailors wear them always as they capsize often. A proper life jacket will keep you afloat face up even if unconscious but does render you pretty much immobile.
On my little boat in sheltered waters I provide the crew with buoyancy vests. They are worn when the wind gets up so they keep you warm around the body and of course do not need to be inflated. Perhaps I should buy LJs with auto inflation but not felt the need. However as I said situation is different here. ol'will

 

[GrantD]

Around here West Oz any boating in the ocean ie more than a couple of km off the shore requires that you carry lifejackets for all on board. (and radio flares fire extinguisher etc) The inflatable types are popular although foam LJs are acceptable. (sometimes described as MaeWest being bulky with buoyancy behind the head so not comfortable to wear). So in UK although not mandated one would appear to be very irresponsible to not carry LJs for everyone. Indeed you might go so far as to say they should be worn at all times. Certainly I would say any time the wind gets up. Now things are a little different here in that the water is not cold and most people can swim. it can be simply too hot to wear LJ.
At our club we provide for rescue boats a buoyancy vest (along with inflatable LJ). The buoyancy vest is provided for the case where a crew gets into the water to help another sailor. You can swim effectively in a buoyancy vest and have the best chance of working and of climbing back on board unaided. Of course dinghy sailors wear them always as they capsize often. A proper life jacket will keep you afloat face up even if unconscious but does render you pretty much immobile.
On my little boat in sheltered waters I provide the crew with buoyancy vests. They are worn when the wind gets up so they keep you warm around the body and of course do not need to be inflated. Perhaps I should buy LJs with auto inflation but not felt the need. However as I said situation is different here. ol'will

Really interesting comment about what to wear if you "get in" to help another sailor.

Should you do that, I guess there are times you must.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Apologies all

27ft
Sabre 27
Newbie stuff at first

First 6 weeks this season crossing from IOW then pottering round Langstone harbour to build experience

Then more ambitious stuff like cruising the Solent and going to say, the Scillies, over next few years.

But some great insights regardless. Thanks.

I think I buy without a light, then add one (for the experience) when night sailing becomes an option.

And if you fall in in day time/sink, how they going to find you without a light when you are reported missing at dusk?

The extra cost of light is trivial.

Well maintained the LJ should last at least 10 years maybe 20. So £5 pa to keep you alive. A harness might be less useful on mobo but my rule is if you leave cockpit, say to anchor or suchlike, clip on unless in harbour or its dead flat. Clip on at night in cockpit or bad weather. Going to heads and then finding crew member from cockpit missing wont improve the trip and with out a light you will probably never find them. We have certainly taken waves on board in the Needles Channel big enough to unbalance folk and tip them overboard

Those waves in Mr Bs vide are not that big, I have seen much bigger in the Needles Channel as indicated, and much much bigger in Weston Bay in f5 last Sunday. Wind over tide both instances but still can catch you out. You may not think you are going out in bad weather, but the storm gods dont read the timetable.

Consider PLB for your pocket also particularly if you dont have EPIRB

 

[GrantD]

And if you fall in in day time/sink, how they going to find you without a light when you are reported missing at dusk?

The extra cost of light is trivial.

Well maintained the LJ should last at least 10 years maybe 20. So £5 pa to keep you alive. A harness might be less useful on mobo but my rule is if you leave cockpit, say to anchor or suchlike, clip on unless in harbour or its dead flat. Clip on at night in cockpit or bad weather. Going to heads and then finding crew member from cockpit missing wont improve the trip and with out a light you will probably never find them. We have certainly taken waves on board in the Needles Channel big enough to unbalance folk and tip them overboard

Those waves in Mr Bs vide are not that big, I have seen much bigger in the Needles Channel as indicated, and much much bigger in Weston Bay in f5 last Sunday. Wind over tide both instances but still can catch you out. You may not think you are going out in bad weather, but the storm gods dont read the timetable.

Consider PLB for your pocket also particularly if you dont have EPIRB

What do think of these as a less expensive alternative to PLBs?

Exposure OLAS Crew Tag and Strap - Man Overboard System

Exposure OLAS Crew Tags Pack of 4 - Man Overboard System

 

[Buck Turgidson]

What do think of these as a less expensive alternative to PLBs?

Exposure OLAS Crew Tag and Strap - Man Overboard System

Exposure OLAS Crew Tags Pack of 4 - Man Overboard System

These type of device are only useful if you are likely to not notice someone going overboard. I would suggest until you start doing double handed overnights when one crew is asleep they should be way down your shopping list given the size of your yacht.

 

[GrantD]

These type of device are only useful if you are likely to not notice someone going overboard. I would suggest until you start doing double handed overnights when one crew is asleep they should be way down your shopping list given the size of your yacht.

Yeh that makes sense. I imagined using them if someone was on a night shift alone

Cool tech though