Life lines and jack stays

KellysEye said:
When we go sailing, two handed, we always have a six to one block and tackle rigged on a spare halyard and clipped to the guardrail amidships. It easy to move it to the other side if needed and doesn't get in the way of anything. We are the only boat that I've ever seen that does this and I've often wondered why.
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I have something similar.

My boat has running backstays, so I already have on each side a wire from the masthead with a hefty tackle on the end. I have made several modifications which both improve their use as runners and make them usable as man-overboard hoists:

  • Put carbine hooks on the bottom blocks instead of the original shackles (also lets me stow the runners against the shrouds going downwind in light airs)
  • Shortened the wires to raise the blocks high enough to lift someone over the rail (also means that if the boom hits a runner it hits rope instead of varnish-eating wire)
  • Lengthened the rope in the tackle so that the hook reaches below the waterline (also lets the runner clear the boom better downwind)

I also have in the emergency-gear locker a big carbine hook (like a buoy-grabber, which is what I bought it for) which could be added to the medium one on the block to make hooking on easier, together with a padded strop for lifting someone who's not wearing a harness or sitting in the Jon Buoy.

I'm not a fan of the usual idea of using the mainsheet, because in anything but flat water the mainsheet will be essential to control the boom.

Pete
 
We have a life sling.

Once the casualty has that on and is alongside, we can take the sling line over the boom, which will be eased out over him, then down through a D-ring which gives a perfect lead to a coach roof winch. I know the life sling is a very uncomfortable harness but this at least this gets them back. Big gates in the life lines is also a big help as that way the lift is only a couple of feet, assuming that we are lifting on the low side and I cannot imagine when that might not be the case.

Interesting thing is how to get another line under the casualty's knees and rolling hitched onto the life sling lifting line to avoid the compression problem and contingent heart attack stuff.
 
I'm not too impressed by the gear available if swmbo should happen to be the only person onboard with me in the water.
I reckon in most conditions she could get the boat back within a length of me but then a great deal of luck would come into play.
In a choppy force 6, wind over tide, I guess my best hope is that with my LJ on I could reach a throwing line, but knowing wifes athletic skills I doubt it. (we do have a 12foot wooden boat hook with an enormous swi-tec hook on the end that may help during all this)

Given that I eventually do get within grabbing distance of a sling I'd then hope I could grab our Jonbuoy recovery sling if its been deployed and if it's still within grasp...... then comes the interesting part.... swmbo getting a halyard to the sling or a rope from me in the sling around a winch, then hoping she's has the strength to winch me aboard and hoping she's remembered to cut the safety line free for me to get over the gunwhale.

I really can't see it all working unless in very calm conditions and thats why I have a 3 way safety line and if swmbo is with me alone I use it!

p.s.
we practise mob routines in Portsmouth harbour - but admitedly only with fenders.
 
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Capt. RoN

I usually sail single handed, so any talk of recovery of MOB is lost on me.
My first imperative is DON’T.
Don’t leave the boat under any circumstances.
Don’t leave the cockpit without thinking through the tasks I am going to do, and risk assessing them.
Don’t ever take my life jacket off. (Fitted with my PLB)
So, first I cleared the decks of ‘things’ that might encourage me to trip over, or stub my tow.
Then I stripped the guard rails (?) off. I found them to be a constant barrier to my free movement around the boat and would not have stopped my progress overboard, but rather assisted.
Then, last season, I experimented with towing a warp connected to the self steering in the hope that after falling overboard I would have time to grab this rope and disconnect the self steering and the boat would round up.
I soon discovered that with 30Mt. of rope hanging off the back and the boat doing 5 Knots, the end passed me by after a little over 10 seconds. Not enough time to recover from the dunking, life jacket inflating, reorientation, and trying to reach the rope that would inevitably be trailing from the wrong side of the transom.
Next I played with the idea of a Jack stays or life line along the centre of the boat, with me connected to it with a short line to the harness of my life jacket, but soon realised that if I went over from the fore deck I would be dragged along beside the boat, and probably drowned, when the line encountered the standing rigging.
So I am thinking of fitting a line down each side of the boat outboard of the rigging so when I am hooked on to that, no matter where I am when I go over, it would allow me to be washed down to the back of the boat where I would be able to pull on a loop of rope dangling across the width of the transom at water level and connected to the self steering and the ladder. Hopefully the boat would round up and I would be able to ascend the ladder and put the kettle on.
Any ideas on what I am missing would be well received.
PS. It’s a Jaguar 22, so not too high.
 
In serious conditions at night well offshore I crawled hands and knees the length of a 38footers deck in a F6 with the shortest length of my 3 way safety line connected to the jackstay.
I had to make 3 return trips as we took off the hanked on jib and put the storm jib on the inner forstay.
There's no shame in crawling and it sure can be a lot safer, especially as the odd wall of green stuff kept coming over the bow.
Red headtorches helped with all three of us for'ard as not only did it help us not to blind oneanother, but the helmsman was able to keep his night vision too.
 
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Scotty_Tradewind

With new boat I am in similar situation, my good lady now matter how good would struggle to get back to me fast. Particularly with our new boat. Running backstays and no roller furling headsail, even short handed therewould be no quick return.

My instructions are if I go over the side to press the GMDSS button inform the coast guard THEN get on with picking me up...

It is a nightmare scenario for any 2 person crew. First time I left her on watch on her own. She pointed out "I did not wear all this, and it was dark for you!" I pointed out that if I fell in people would say I should of known better, if she fell in people would say should of taught you better...

Now she insists I have to wear a life-jacket & harness to day or night...
 
onesea said:
Scotty_Tradewind

With new boat I am in similar situation, my good lady now matter how good would struggle to get back to me fast. Particularly with our new boat. Running backstays and no roller furling headsail, even short handed therewould be no quick return.

My instructions are if I go over the side to press the GMDSS button inform the coast guard THEN get on with picking me up...

It is a nightmare scenario for any 2 person crew. First time I left her on watch on her own. She pointed out "I did not wear all this, and it was dark for you!" I pointed out that if I fell in people would say I should of known better, if she fell in people would say should of taught you better...

Now she insists I have to wear a life-jacket & harness to day or night...
Click to expand...

agreed...... but if you have a harness and lifeline why wear a lifejacket? They only get in the way! :)
 
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Scotty_Tradewind said:
In serious conditions at night well offshore I crawled hands and knees the length of a 38footers deck in a F6 with the shortest length of my 3 way safety line connected to the jackstay.
I had to make 3 return trips as we took off the hanked on jib and put the storm jib on the inner forstay.
There's no shame in crawling and it sure can be a lot safer, especially as the odd wall of green stuff kept coming over the bow.
Red headtorches helped with all three of us for'ard as not only did it help us not to blind oneanother, but the helmsman was able to keep his night vision too.
Click to expand...

Not only is there no shame in crawling (have done it myself more than once), there is even less shame in wearing a PFD. Some 40 years ago, racing in Florida (SORC) I was teased for being a "Lands' End cover boy" (back then, Lands' End was a chandlery in Chicago) for wearing a PFD and a strobe. My response? As a dinghy sailor, I was accustomed to ending up in the water and, were I to have a mishap at sea, I'd have a good chance at living through it; those without a PFD would not. It has been gratifying to see PFDs worn more universally nowadays.

So I always hook up to the jackstay at night, and always use the short part of the tether to get from point to point. Given a choice, I'd prefer a wire rope jackstay over a nylon strap; it won't stretch anywhere near as much.
 
Scotty_Tradewind said:
Hi Grankin
welcome to you as a 'new user' to the site.

Good to see, that with me, you have an interest in 'bikes, although I'd need a good sit up and beg version for comfort these days.

S.
Click to expand...

I have just sold two bikes: a '94 Bimota db-2 and a '74 MV Agusta 350B (each of which wore clipons) for two reasons: (1) they hurt my wrists & neck and (2) to help finance a daughter attending a too-expensive private university. So I am down to my '78 Ducati Darmah, whose riding position is suitable for a person of my age. It also looks like a Proper Motorbike and sounds like the Wrath of God. Which is nice. :)
 
> I crawled hands and knees the length of a 38footers deck in a F6 with the shortest length of my 3 way safety line connected to the jackstay.

Exactly what we do in bad weather. When standing up working at the mast we leave one tether on the jackstay and one round the mast which would stop us going over the rails.

>I'd prefer a wire rope jackstay over a nylon strap;

I agree it won't stretch but I've only seen them used rarely, they roll underfoot and you can slip. I wouldn't use them. The main problem with tape jacktays is UV damage to the tape and particularly the stitching. If anything begins to look dodgy or faded we make new ones.
 
Scotty_Tradewind said:
Like this grankin?
http://raresportbikesforsale.com/1994-bimota-db2-in-houston/3nf3m53l85te5pe5r0a1s760320d9dd331f23/
and this?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C116518
or this?
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q='7...QXTqNn0Cw&sqi=2&ved=0CFkQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=725

I'm green with envy! :)
Click to expand...

My db-2 is (was) this one: <http://raresportbikesforsale.com/1994-bimota-db2-tricolore-in-wisconsin/>. My MV was without fairing, was elderly & unrestored (which is code for "original condition" - with all warts & faded paint.

The Bimota was a lovely thing, but is now in a good home in California where it will be ridden by a younger guy. The MV has gone to a Wisconsin collector who has been in love with it since he saw it and it, too, will be ridden. The Darmah stays with me until I can't get my leg over it any longer.
 
KellysEye said:
>

I agree it won't stretch but I've only seen them used rarely, they roll underfoot and you can slip. I wouldn't use them. The main problem with tape jacktays is UV damage to the tape and particularly the stitching. If anything begins to look dodgy or faded we make new ones.
Click to expand...

Apologies for taking the thread off track......

Yes I tend to agree that the steel wire jackstays roll under foot can also do a fair amount of damage to the decks over the years.
 
Scotty_Tradewind said:
Apologies for taking the thread off track......

Yes I tend to agree that the steel wire jackstays roll under foot can also do a fair amount of damage to the decks over the years.
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Well ... the Stevens 50 I just sailed among the San Blas Islands has stainless wire rope jackstays. I used them in the med in 2006, trans-Atlantic in 2007 (didn't need them in the islands). I never had a problem with them underfoot, but they do stain the deck. So do other things. Salt water's a nasty thing (says he who has sailed more years over fresh water).
 
Scotty_Tradewind said:
agreed...... but if you have a harness and lifeline why wear a lifejacket? They only get in the way! :)
Click to expand...

You may be in something of a hurry to release or cut your lifeline when hanging over the side of the boat by it and either being towed through the water or beaten against the topsides, depending on how long the tether is.

Once you've detached yourself from the boat, something which equips you with a flash of dayglo colour, retro-reflective tape, a light, a whistle, a spray hood, and which keeps you afloat to boot, might be handy.

If you want to try a more realistic MOB drill, try lobbing a coconut overboard mid Channel and not losing it. It gives a fairly good approximation how difficult it is to maintain visual contact with a MOB who is not wearing a lifejacket.
 
Scotty_Tradewind said:
agreed...... but if you have a harness and lifeline why wear a lifejacket? They only get in the way! :)
Click to expand...

Because my harness IS my lifejacket (an inflatable), which festooned with the usual whistle, the ACR Firefly strobe I've had for decades, and a nifty Spinlock tether cutter. The harness built into my fw gear jacket is sorta surplus, but I keep it installed, just in case.
 
>If you want to try a more realistic MOB drill, try lobbing a coconut overboard mid Channel and not losing it.

We had an inflatable Danbuoy washed off the boat in big seas, we lost sight of it in a few minutes. I couldn't believe it, if it had been an MOB one of us would still have been turning the boat round. Moral of the story: don't go overboard.
 
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