Life jackets and Bouyancy aids - worse than they used to be

[dylanwinter]

back in the old days - when myself and all three brothers were sailing all the time we used to have two types of bouyancy aids that were brilliant

we had the so called "floatation jackets" that were foulie jackets that were insulated with flotation material. They were great - felt very little different to the ones that were just insulated - and they worked. We were young and tried them out. Wore them all the time it was cold.

We also used to have some really simple, light zip up wasitcoat affairs that had super tough bubble wrap inside them. They were very comfortable, warm under a peter storm anorak, cool when worn over a teashirt and very comfy to sit on or lean back against something in the cockpit. They even made pretty good pillows. So they were always there, always ready to be used or chucked at some-one in the water.

Now I know that neither of these will keep you afloat the right way up if you get a clonk on the head before going in or pass all the inert body rules etc etc

I for one have never met anyone who has ever gone overboard uncontious after being clonked on the head. I am sure it has happened but never met anyone it has happened to.

but.... they were both such wonderful garments that you would tend to wear them more often than the horrible things with collars that stopped you from being able to see anywhere but straight ahead

Even the self inflating ones that make me slightly nervous - never know if they are going to go off at the right time and some of mine are out of date. This is bad I know but I am a bad and stupid person.


at the risk of getting onto a Health and safety gone mad thread I often wonder if we would be better off without the safety approved life jackets that will keep an uncontious person afloat in a hurricane.


A simple, cheap as chips flotation vest that is easy to put on, light to wear and lasts until you can see that it is worn out seems a better bet than a device that might or might not self inflate depending on wether it has passed its sell by date.

I think that it would be a lot easier getting back into the boat with one of the old style bubble wrap waistcoats on than with a movement restricting balloon around your neck.

a bit like the stoopid fail safe device on my new outboard that is designed to stop the eejits from starting it in gear and chopping up fish, puppies or toddlers with spinning props.

It failed the other week and put both of us in a dangerous position when we could not start the outboard because the safety device had failed - and the fail safe position for the safety device is to not let you start the engine

there....

feel better now

.... and the thunder storm has passed so I can walk the dog


Dylan

 

[mikeinkwazi]

back in the old days - when myself and all three brothers were sailing all the time we used to have two types of bouyancy aids that were brilliant

we had the so called "flotation jackets" that were foulie jackets that were insulated with flotation material. They were great - felt very little different to the ones that were just insulated - and they worked. WSe were young and tried them out. Wore them all the time it was cold.

We also used to have some really simple, light zip up wasitcoat affairs that had super tough bubble wrap inside them. They were very comfortable, warm under a peter storm anorak, cool when worn over a teashirt and very comfy to sit on or lean back aganist something in the cockpit. They even made pretty good pillows. So they were always there, always ready to be used or chucked at some-one in the water.

Now I know that neither of these will keep you afloat the right way up if you get a clonk on the head before going in or pass all the inert body rules etc etc

I for one have never met anyone who has ever gone overboard uncontious after being clonked on the head. I am sure it has happened but never met anyone it has happened to.

but.... they were both such wonderful garments that you would tend to wear them more often than the horrible things with collars that stopped you from being able to see anywhere but straight ahead

Even the self inflating ones that make me slightly nervous - never know if they are going to go off at the right time and some of mine are out of date. This is bad I know but I am a bad and stupid person.


at the risk of getting onto a Health and safety gone mad thread I often wonder if we would be better off without the safety approved life jackets that will keep an uncontious person afloat in a hurricane.


A simple, cheap as chips flotation vest that is easy to put on, light to wear and lasts until you can see that it is worn out seems a better bet than a device that might or might not self inflate depending on wether it has passed its sell by date.

I think that it would be a lot easier getting back into the boat with one of the old style bubble wrap waistcoats on than with a movement restricting balloon around your neck.

a bit like the stoopid fail safe device on my new outboard that is designed to stop the eejits from starting it in gear and chopping up fish, puppies or toddlers with spinning props.

It failed the other week and put both of us in a dangerous position when we could not start the outboard because the safety device had failed - and the fail safe position for the safety device is to not let you start the engine


Dylan

+1

 

[Chrusty 1]

+2

 

[BERT T]

Buoyancy aids

As dylan says, with the zip up you know what you've got and they keep you warm.
So + 3.

 

[bitbaltic]

I for one have never met anyone who has ever gone overboard uncontious after being clonked on the head. I am sure it has happened but never met anyone it has happened to.

Can't help thinking there may be a reason for that.

Don't sail singlehanded and the Bristol channel is trouble enough from inside a boat. From inside a bit of bubble wrap I'm sure it would look infinitely worse. I'll be sticking with a decent and serviced life jacket methinks.

 

[penfold]

What you're describing probably offered nugatory flotation. The things with collars are life jackets, and I agree, they are a pain to wear.

Flotation jacket

bouyancy aid

Horrid life jacket with collar

 

[Iliade]

Went dinghy sailing in the 'summer' wearing nowt but the flotation inner from my foulies. It was bought in my early twenties and by this summer wouldn't zip up without the extra few inches the coat provides, so I added a lengthened waist belt and carried on regardless.

The inevitable happened, the leaky hull flooded internally and I ended up swimming alongside the dinghy as it & I were being carried into the scend protection at some rate.

I'm a fair swimmer, so no real problem, but I have to admit that the relatively insecure jacket offered next to no buoyancy. Afterwards I immediately went on a diet and now it fits, albeit snugly :0)

Having helped out with the kids' dinghy sailing, I have also now reluctantly moved into the 'lifejacket with crotch strap or it's hopeless' camp, though once aboard I prefer a simple harness, as not getting wet in the first place seems preferable.

 

[apogee]

'ear 'ear. Exactly what I've always thought without realising it.

 

[Blueboatman]

Well wrote that man.
My superdooper self inflating hoodie cum harness and nadger strapping things are a non intuitive complete pita to put on.

And one went off in the hanging locker which at least was quite funny but tedious.

Looking for solid flotation vests now that don't catch the oars, are puncture proof idiot proof and can be thrown.

 

[maxi77]

Dylan both of the devices you eulogise over aare avilable today and are widely used. For a long time Mrs Maxi had a flotation suit (purchased for peanuts from a fishig gear shops during it's sale) It was great for winter sailing and comfy. For many years I used the bouyancy aid under my dry suit when laser sailing ideal and kept me afloat after many capsizes. They are excelent for what they are designed for keeping your body afloat, and help you keep warm too. They do not keep your mouth clear of the water though without effort on your behalf which means they can actually drown you if you are unconcious. It is your choice as to which appliance to buy and when to use it.

 

[Flashy]

We have Mustang float coats at work but they're bulky and restrictive so I prefer a lifejacket -- modern ones are small, light and comfortable. Having been involved in MoBs, both real and drill, I know that float coats don't offer much flotation -- just enough to not drag you down really.

I have both but only wear the float coat when I know I'll get very wet, like working on the beach in surf.

 

[fishermantwo]

Where I live I have to cross a bar to get to sea. The law states that life jackets have to be worn entering and leaving over designated bars. I use an older type sailing buoyancy vest, the type with the block foam surrounded in that acrylic canvas material. I have modified it by sewing seat belt material around the bottom and across the chest with plastic clips. The top strap also has loops so that I can attach a safety rope or get hauled out of the water, it is in the style of the helo lifting strop. The strap is doubled back over its self. I also have a whistle attached and a loop sewn near the shoulder that I clip my handheld vhf to. Its comfortable to wear all day if I want, will last 50 years or so.
Other people I pass at the entrance are usually wearing inflatable stuff. I have never seen one yet wearing crutch straps!

 

[LittleSister]

Can't help thinking there may be a reason for that.

Don't sail singlehanded and the Bristol channel is trouble enough from inside a boat. From inside a bit of bubble wrap I'm sure it would look infinitely worse. I'll be sticking with a decent and serviced life jacket methinks.

In my opinion you are better off with a 'buoyancy aid' if you are single handed and end up in the water anywhere near your boat, or other boats or the shore, as you will have some prospect of (a) swimming to safety, and (b) climbing a ladder or similar, both unlikely in a lifejacket.

I used to do a lot of sea kayaking (including across the Bristol Channel from Watchet to Barry) and, like almost all sea kayakers, wore a buoyancy aid in preference to a 'lifejacket' precisely because if I'd capsized (which is always a distinct possibility) and failed to roll myself straight back up, I would have needed to be able to be able to both swim and climb back into the kayak.

In a ideal world I would carry both a buoyancy aid and kifejacket for each person aboard the yacht, but it's a bit tight for space, so we just have lifejackets aboard.

Santa bought the First Mate one of those expensive snazzy slim fit (you have to buy the right size) lifejackets (can't remember make) with all the bells and (literal) whistles. She says it's very comfortable, and much more so than the standard inflatable types.

 

[Lodesman77]

Dylan both of the devices you eulogise over aare avilable today .

? You can still get a Flotherchoc?

 

[Flashy]

In my opinion you are better off with a 'buoyancy aid' if you are single handed and end up in the water anywhere near your boat, or other boats or the shore, as you will have some prospect of (a) swimming to safety, and (b) climbing a ladder or similar, both unlikely in a lifejacket.

Quite a good point -- while it is possible to get around wearing an inflated lifejacket, you're more mobile in a buoyancy aid.

As for self-rescue, I've climbed out over the transom of a large inflatable boat wearing an inflated 150N lifejacket without too much trouble, using the outboard as a ladder. Water was 5C. I did think at the time it would be harder in a 270N one.

 

[dylanwinter]

this is what we had

? You can still get a Flotherchoc?

I had no idea what they were called

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6387170601_328b13caab_z.jpg

if you type it into Google you get some intersting threads from people who wore one of thwese and are, amazingly, still alive to tell the story.

hard to beleive I know.

Mind you, I have worn the old navy life vests made of Kapok or similar

truly terrible devices

D

 

[FishyInverness]

As for self-rescue, I've climbed out over the transom of a large inflatable boat wearing an inflated 150N lifejacket without too much trouble, using the outboard as a ladder. Water was 5C. I did think at the time it would be harder in a 270N one.

But you don't have to keep a lifejacket inflated when you're at point of rescue or re-embarkation. A brief press on the release valve and the jacket becomes more manageable in that situation...

 

[jamesjermain]

I can't believe I'm reading this.
I hate excessive H&S as much as the next man but to suggerst a buoyancy aid is better a proper lifejacket for use on a cruising boat is madness. There is a reason why lifejackets are the way they are and that is because they do the job properly when there aren't safety boats about, loads of other dinghies and a shore a few yards distant. Modern lifejackets are light, compact and very easty to put on and wear. Even I have begun to use one even when its not blowing old boots at night.

It was when I did my last Sea Survival course that the full benefit of a lifejacket with crutch strap and face protector was fully driven home. Even in a swimming pool the face protector made life a lot more comfortable and the crutch strap mean you could swim in it without it trying to come up over your nose and you could be lifted into the liferaft by it.
Sorry, I'm not often shocked by a thread here, but I am by this one.

 

[MissFitz]

It was when I did my last Sea Survival course that the full benefit of a lifejacket with crutch strap and face protector was fully driven home. Even in a swimming pool the face protector made life a lot more comfortable and the crutch strap mean you could swim in it without it trying to come up over your nose and you could be lifted into the liferaft by it.

+1

Also found the practical part of the survival course very salutary, demonstrated clearly that in full offshore kit you haven't a hope in hell of staying afloat without a) a decent lifejacket & b) crotch straps. We also had races up & down the pool in the lifejackets so it's not impossible to swim in them, just a different technique.

 

[doug748]

I have one of these, very snazzy and comfortable and would give a bit of help in the water.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...ums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=62101

They were dreadfully expensive and I don't think they are available now. Mine came from a car boot sale.
I also have a Abu Garcia angler's coat which has built in bouyancy but is very hot to wear. It is a bit like an offshore waterproof.

PS
Sor - ree
Forgot to put the link in.