Lidgard Lotus or Cav?

[nigelparry]

I'm looking for a fast cruising boat to use around the NZ coast and the 3 boats that people have pointed me towards are the Lidgard 34, Lotus 1060 and the Cav 36. They are in the right range price wise (sub $140k) and are the right sort of size. Does anyone out there have any experience with these boats? I'm looking for something that is reasonably quick, can safely cope with Cook Strait conditions (big currents, big winds, disturbed seas on good days!) and can accomodate a group of 4 maybe 5 for up to a week. Any advice and feedback gratefully received.

 

[Stingo]

welcome to the forum hummin.

Most of the folks on here are UK based and probably won't have heard of the makes you've mentioned. This probably doesn't help you so I'll just climb back into my box.

 

[nigelparry]

Yes I did think it would be a long shot, but there are a few other NZ postings on the forum so its worth a shot. I've also seen some of these boats for sale in the UK, having been purchased in NZ and sailed to the UK.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Hi Hummin

Welcome. No ,not a long shot, I am a Brit living in NZ and know these (and lots of other NZ boats) well. In fact I recently bought a Lidgard myself after much searching. I'm a bit pushed on time so can't write much more now but will reply more comprehensively tomorrow.

Also, Ship's Cat is Wellington-based and has a fine 40ft steel Ganley with which he tackles the Cook St on a regulalr basis. Whereas I'm in Auckland and enjoy the relatively tranquil waters of the Hauraki Gulf.

Happy to talk more. Will post again tomorrow.

Rob

 

[Ships_Cat]

In fact we are pretty much neighbours Nigel, without getting into detail in public on here I am just at the beach on the southern side of the river - you will know the long road that runs along the beach front from the river to the roundabout by the beach shops/boating club/coastguard/etc.

Wife and I have been planning on getting over to Sounds but with visitors staying until today and work, we have not got away yet. With 50 knots southerly forecast through the Strait tommorrow afternoon it looks as if it will still be a while.

I don't have any first hand experience with the boats you mention but I suspect the choice might also be influenced by whether you keep it at Mana or in Wellington. It is a comparatively easy and short crossing from Mana but if from Wellington it can be very heavy going across the bottom of North Island. We are in Wellington because of the draft restrictions at Mana (we draw 2.1 m so can only just get in and out of Mana on the top of the tide) and that influences boat choice as well.

Robb would probably have a lot more exposure to the boats you mention as they are more popular up in Auckland - I can vouch for his being a nice guy and also a real one too (one never knows on these forums /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) and would not put you wrong with respect to those boats' reputations. But I would be happy to look at any boat with you from a general "is it ok" point of view should you need anyone.

Anyway, I will email you over the next day or so with contact details, etc.

Regards

John

 

[nigelparry]

Hi Robb,

Thanks for your reply, and Ships Cat too. I would be interested in your views, I'm keen to get something that is sea kindly as well as reasonably quick, but with my limited experience of different boats, I feel like a kid with a nice bright lolly pop wandering into brokers ghetto.

As well as Cook Strait/Marlborough Sounds, I do intend to sail around to Hauraki Gulf and Northland. A little ambitious for me at this stage (sailing from Wgtn!), but I'm sure owning a boat down here will give me the opportunity to get the experience I need.

Look forward to your reply,

Cheers - Nigel

 

[nigelparry]

Thanks John,

I'm north of the river, overlooking Pekapeka beach so yes, we are near neighbours.

Your comments about Mana or Wgtn are helpful. I read about Mana's shallow entrance the other day and didn't think it could be right, given the number of large yachts in there but I guess its all true.

Thanks for the offer of help, I look forward to getting your email and picking your brains a bit more.

Cheers - Nigel

PS In the meantime, yell out if you need crew - always keen.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Nigel

Taking each in turn briefly:

Lidgard: Most of these are John Lidgard designs, tend to be heavier displacement i.e. comfortable in a blow but not going to win any races. A smaller number are offshoots from within the extensive Lidgard family including Gary, Kevin and Duthie. These boats are more fast cruisers or even racer/cruisers. Perfect (Hauraki) Gulf boats but would find some offshore conditions less comfortable than John's heavier designs. Having said that mine is a Duthie Lidgard and one of her two sister ships won the Auckland to Noumea race a few years back, so they are fundamentally quick and capable. I'm only 35ft and approx. 5 tons and regulalry clock speeds in the 8-10kts region without drama - only last weekend I sailed 12nm in 1.5 hrs in a 20kts beam reach. A very comfortable average 8kts. Fewer of these lighter displacement Lidgards are on the market at any one time. But happy to send you some pics of mine if it helps give you some idea. A Kevin Lidgard is available right now in Auckland but it's more of racer and not what you want.

Lotus: Alan Wright design. Anything called a Lotus or a Wright will be in a similar mould although interior design did vary. The Oz versions actually have more headroom if that's of any interest. A few Oz boats made it back here to NZ. Very capable boats and another perfect Gulf boat. Very similar to lighter displacement Lidgards i.e. fast cruiser/racers but with plenty of family-friendly volume and creature comforts. Always do well in the cruising races and give my Lidgard a good run! I very nearly went for a MkII Lotus 10.6 with walk thru transom but found my Lidgard at same time which had slightly more headroom (I'm 6'2") and also had wheel and mainsheet traveller mounted on deck instead of cockpit. These were my only gripes with the Lotus/Wright boats. Many more on the market at any one time, a healthy range to choose from altho some overpriced so tread carefully.

Cavalier: Also very capable boats and probably more offshore suited in terms of interior layout. Cav 36 is has shaed of IOR design with braod beam and pinched ends which reduce cockpit volume tremendously compared to Lotus and Lidgard. But very strong boats and possible better suited to bashing across the Cook St. And for same money as top condition Lotus 10.6 you are in the same zone as a Cav39 which is a completely different proposition altogether - this is a proven offshore cruiser, long deep keel, heavy displacement, oodels of volume and storage and even a potential liveaboard option. But no walk thru transom so not as family friendly for those sunny days spent swimming off the anchorage! But if you seriously intend to do some Cook St bashing and also a trip up towards Northalnd then the Cav39 would be my first choice. On a good day the Lidgards and Lotuses would beat you to the next waypoint but in the Cav39 you'd be able to eat your dinner on the way.

Lots of other respectable options too. Suggest you take a browse at the broker section of ywb.com and select all 2nd hand sail boats in NZ within your budget. But be warned there are some real dogs on the market too!

Happy to talk more. PM if you want to.

Rob

 

[Rob_Webb]

Forgot to mention, if the Cav39 appeals to you then also check out Pacific 38s. Similar concept, rock solid, great offshore/Cook St boats. Also known as Compass 38s in Oz.

 

[nigelparry]

Thanks Robb, you are a mine of information. Sounds like the Cav 39/ P38 is a better bet. Yes, the walk thru transom is good if poss, more for the wifes comfort level in getting in and out of the dinghy.

Having thought more about all this, I've come to a similar view to you - that sea comfort and safety is more important and that implies a longer keel and heavier displacement, which for my budget means a slower boat.

Thanks for your advice, much appreciated. If you drop me an email, I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Nigel

Just to be clear, the Cavaliers and Pacific are more traditional closed aft cockpit designs and do not have open walkthru transoms. Some of the Lotuses and Lidgards do, though not all.

You might want to include Oz in your search for a Cav 39 and Pacific/Compass 38. With a bit of prep. & planning a well sorted version of either of these is perfectly capable of making the Tasman crossing back to NZ.

 

[StuartMy]

Lotus 10.6

Can anyone tell me whether the mast on a Lotus 10.6 Mk 1 goes through the deck to the keel?

 

[Rob_Webb]

Can anyone tell me whether the mast on a Lotus 10.6 Mk 1 goes through the deck to the keel?

Yes I think they do. I haven't seen a 10.6 that doesn't have a keel-stepped mast.