License for Water Scooters. Thin end of the wedge?

[Tomahawk]

Agree, Jet-Skis should require operator's licence.

Under maratime law... is there a legal definition of a jet ski? ... of the sort that yaghties get so upset about?

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

This note explains the law governing the use of jet skis.

I took a dislike to them before I got a sailing boat.

Local bye-laws

There are no national regulations governing the ownership and use of recreational craft in inshore waters as there is a common law right of navigation permitting people to sail a vessel wherever they like in tidal waters. The common law right can be circumscribed if specific powers are taken. Harbour authorities are statutory bodies and can make bye-laws. One of the problems is that even if bye-laws are in place, it is often costly to bring about a prosecution. Once the craft are outside the harbour the responsibility lies with the local authority.

And in there is the grist, which local authority can afford to police the water?

It's quite amazing when you think about it, how a couple of plonkers think they are entitled to disturb the peace of everyone else at the beach or lake kicking up rooster tails of water just because they can, isn't it?

Same pretty much goes for scooter riders, or bikers, who insist on sticking performance exhaust pipes on theirs in town too. They seem to live in a bubble of me-ness.

The law takes too long to respond, dumping any problem on local authorities is clearly the governments way to sweep an issue under the carpet.

Try googling for, "Applicability of Admiralty and Maritime Law to Jet Skis or personal watercraft"

 

[NotBirdseye]

This note explains the law governing the use of jet skis.

I took a dislike to them before I got a sailing boat.

And in there is the grist, which local authority can afford to police the water?

It's quite amazing when you think about it, how a couple of plonkers think they are entitled to disturb the peace of everyone else at the beach or lake kicking up rooster tails of water just because they can, isn't it?

Same pretty much goes for scooter riders, or bikers, who insist on sticking performance exhaust pipes on theirs in town too. They seem to live in a bubble of me-ness.

The law takes too long to respond, dumping any problem on local authorities is clearly the governments way to sweep an issue under the carpet.

Try googling for, "Applicability of Admiralty and Maritime Law to Jet Skis or personal watercraft"

It's the coast guards job...

Causing harm to another individual with or without a motor is a criminal offense, even if done recklessly. Behaving in a reckless manner in a public space is also a criminal offense. Causing a public nuisance... so on and so forth. These laws apply where it is within British Territory and that includes up to a certain distance off the cost (somewhere between 5 and 25 nautical miles).

There are laws, people just don't wanna use 'em. It only takes a HoL ruling to say: Yep this applies.

 

[STATUE]

I forgot, yes of course those big black registration numbers should also have to be dislayed on the road trailer - so we can chase them up the M3 !

 

[langstonelayabout]

Agree, Jet-Skis should require operator's licence.

Definitely, if only so that the rider can be banned immediately.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

It's the coast guards job...There are laws, people just don't wanna use 'em.

Did you read the link? it's sort of interesting.

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency agrees. “As jet skis and personal watercraft are not deemed to be a vessel at sea, they fall outside of our licencing powers and abilities to detain or prosecute,” a statement says.

Apparently, they're legally not a vessel and don't navigate.

Well, we knew the latter.

Neither the MCA nor the Coastguard has any powers with regards to the segregation of activities on the beach or near foreshore, as these rest with the local authority or beach owner if the beach is privately owned.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Did you read the link? it's sort of interesting.

Apparently, they're legally not a vessel and don't navigate.

Well, we knew the latter.

If they're not at sea (at sea is vaguely defined as 'open waters' that may not include the immediate coast) then it's a police matter instead. While quite correct on the segregation of activities... a crime is still a crime doesn't matter where it is.

 

[Bristolfashion]

In Oz we have to have a motorboat licence for any powered vessel, subject to a minimum horsepower. There's an extension for PWCs. Seems pretty sensible that a basic knowledge of the rules, some safety & some weather awareness is required. It applies to yachts when powered. The marine environment is much more dangerous & unpredictable for the user than pootling down the road on a bike. There's also a lot more potential for injury - even getting knocked off your paddle board by a dinghy is potentially worse than a tumble on the pavement involving a bike.

Of course, in any discussion of regulation, it's not a question of if bike bashing will start but when. Bikes present very low risk both in terms of frequency and severity but I don't regret either my "cycling proficiency" test 50 years ago or holding insurance. If you require licensed & insured cyclists, why not pedestrians, skateboarders, scooter pushers, paddle boarders, prams, sack trolleys, surfers, roller skaters, kayakers ..... etc,etc? I've been cycling a lot for 50 years, whilst cycling fully legally & very visibly, I've been knocked off 3 times by these "trained" motorists - not nice experiences. It certainly puts the dangers of a few kg of bike doing 15mph into context when a tonne or more of metal hits you at 30+mph. I've never hit anyone whilst riding my bike.

 

[CLB]

Agree, Jet-Skis should require operator's licence.

What about SeaDoos and Waverunners? Or is it just owners of Kawasaki PWCs that you want to penalise?

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

... then it's a police matter instead.

And there, laddies & gentlemen, is England in 2020 defined.

The harbourmaster says, "it's not my job, it in open waters".
The coast guard says, "it's not my job, it's the local authority's".
The police say, "it's not our job, it's an entirely civil matter".
The local authority says, "it's not our job, it's on private land".
The private land owner says, "ما المقصود بالمركبة المائية الشخصية؟".

 

[FlyingGoose]

And there, laddies & gentlemen, is England in 2020 defined.

The harbourmaster says, "it's not my job, it in open waters".
The coast guard says, "it's not my job, it's the local authority's".
The police say, "it's not our job, it's an entirely civil matter".
The local authority says, "it's not our job, it's on private land".
The private land owner says, "ما المقصود بالمركبة المائية الشخصية؟".

Harbour masters have only a defined area which if you look up their area it will be defined on a nautical chart
Yes coast guard do not deal in civil mister matters , or they would be getting called out because so,e one stole someone’s space on the beach
The police are right it is a civil matter and have better things to do that chase jet skis which are annoying some grumpy people who think it should be silent we’re they are
It is not private land a harbour authority in generally run by the council or a charity , or an organisation ,some one is in charge , if that some one does not care or does not have noise sensitivity why would they waste money time and man power to meet the expectations of some grumpy sod who dislikes jet skis
Your last point is crase
Seriously 91 posts including mine , to argue about jet skis, what about all you lot on motorbikes horsing around , no c,annot spoil your fun , well leave those who have a diffrent fun to you , alone , good grief what a sad thread

 

[NotBirdseye]

And there, laddies & gentlemen, is England in 2020 defined.

The harbourmaster says, "it's not my job, it in open waters".
The coast guard says, "it's not my job, it's the local authority's".
The police say, "it's not our job, it's an entirely civil matter".
The local authority says, "it's not our job, it's on private land".
The private land owner says, "ما المقصود بالمركبة المائية الشخصية؟".

Lol. To be fair my point is about the point where crime is actually committed... and we have an awful lot of them. I mean... we could just charge them with Terrorism. (Yes it is that broad).

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

Your last point is crase

Crass?

You've not checked the land registry for Scotland recently. The point being made is about foreign, absentee landowners really not caring.

The law has been similarly clamping down on motorcycles since the 1970s (?). The next great swipe forward will be emissions banning them from cities. I can forsee a future where the only place internal combustion engine driven motor vehicles are ridden is in specially dedicated arenas, for historical purposes only.

Noise is health damaging pollution. It is mutually exclusive to peace. What greater rights do 1 or 2 plonkers have over 100s of others to disturb theirs?

That is a much bigger question the law, government, seems incapable of resolving. It seems we live in a society where the priority is the abusive have the rights to abuse, with increasingly impossible onuses places on victims to be able to do anything about. And god forbid they "take the law into their own hands" even if Plod has no interest, and no funds, to do so.

Again, I find it bizarre how certain individuals by nature flock to defend the abusive over the victimised.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Crass?

You've not checked the land registry for Scotland recently. The point being made is about foreign, absentee landowners really not caring.

The law has been similarly clamping down on motorcycles since the 1970s (?). The next great swipe forward will be emissions banning them from cities. I can forsee a future where the only place internal combustion engine driven motor vehicles are ridden is in specially dedicated arenas, for historical purposes only.

Noise is health damaging pollution. It is mutually exclusive to peace. What greater rights do 1 or 2 plonkers have over 100s of others to disturb theirs?

That is a much bigger question the law, government, seems incapable of resolving. It seems we live in a society where the priority is the abusive have the rights to abuse, with increasingly impossible onuses places on victims to be able to do anything about. And god forbid they "take the law into their own hands" even if Plod has no interest, and no funds, to do so.

Again, I find it bizarre how certain individuals by nature flock to defend the abusive over the victimised.

Tbf motorcyclists have been getting themselves into all kinds of trouble, some not even of their own making but made worse because they chose a motorcycle. We're not just talking about 1 or 2 deaths here. Particularly where I am, motorcyclists overtake dangerously and often much too close, enough so I have to, against the Highway code, apply the breaks to stop the motorcyclists clipping the wing of my car and sending themselves flying.

As for emissions, cars that pollute should pretty much be off the road by 2025... which means I need a hydrogen conversion asap.

 

[greeny]

What about electric scooters? and the operators? License or not? test or not? helmet or not? Age limits?

 

[Stemar]

What about electric scooters? and the operators? License or not? test or not? helmet or not? Age limits?

I would say, Licence if top speed over X mph, only to be used on the road, under X, no licence and allow on pavements, helmet, yes for the fast ones, insurance yes, for all and maybe 12 for the slow ones, 16 for the quicker ones. You can argue what X should be, my starter would be 5mph, but all limited to, 15 or 20.

They're very different from jetskis; there's a lot more space on the water. 30 yards is what I would consider a sensible distance from my boat for a jetski speed, on the pavement, you're doing well if you can keep 30 inches from everyone.

One final aside. I went for a walk along Weston Shore, which borders Southampton Water yesterday. There were a couple of paddle boarders out doing their stuff, and a couple of jetskis. The jetskis stayed well away from the PBers and far enough off shore that their noise wasn't intrusive. They aren't all antisocial oiks, any more than all bikers.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Almost every time I go through the Burnt Isles narrows, some twonk in a motorboat comes storming through, stern asquat, bows thrusting phallically into the air and in complete disregard of the speed limit. Is it time to require licenses for those things?

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

What about electric scooters? and the operators? License or not? test or not? helmet or not? Age limits?

This generations' Klackers, except they're not going to take someone's eye out; but they are already killing old ladies. Our local drug dealers just love them, and yet the politicians are hailing them as a traffic solution.

Do the maths, 6'2" and a good 14st, times 20 mph, with pokey little wheels and zero rake and stablity, no regs re brakes, I don't doubt zero type approval. It would be like getting hit by, what, about 4 tons?

I've already written my letter to the MP.

Yup, walking pace sounds just fine.

 

[CLB]

Almost every time I go through the Burnt Isles narrows, some twonk in a motorboat comes storming through, stern asquat, bows thrusting phallically into the air and in complete disregard of the speed limit. Is it time to require licenses for those things?

I believe there is a 'no wash' instruction through here, rather than a speed limit. I also note that these channels are subject to strong tides. How fast do they run?

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

This generations' Klackers, except they're not going to take someone's eye out; but they are already killing old ladies. Our local drug dealers just love them, and yet the politicians are already hailing them as a traffic solution.

Do the maths, 6'2" and a good 14st, times 20 mph, with pokey little wheels and zero rake and stablity, no regs re brakes, I don't doubt zero type approval. It would be like getting hit by, what, about 4 tons?

I've already written my letter to the MP.

Yup, walking pace sounds just fine.

Maths.

Momentum wise, like being hit by 4 tons at 0.4375mph. Energy wise, 4 tons at nearly 3mph.