G
Guest
Guest
I am just about to sign an order for a new Legend 356. Is there anything I should know before do it?
Adrian_Morgan
New member
... that you will be buying one of the finest modern yachts available anywhere; one that fully lives up to its name and will, not only be a legend in its own time but take its place in the fullness of time alongside the likes of Dyarchy, Stormy Weather, Dorade, the Nic 43, Vertue, Z-4 tonner, Gypsy Moth, Wanderer II, Mystery, Joshua, Vertue, Folkboat, yeh even the humble Twister. A yacht whose looks will provoke envy wherever you drop anchor, whose bold sheerline and timeless elegance will ensure she becomes an instant classic. Ha ha.
JeremyF
New member
Tim,
You need to tell us what you are looking for in a yacht; what koind of sailing do you plan to do in the Legend. Wiyth the notable exception of the MacGregor, I don't blieve there is a fundamentally unsound boat, but each is better at different things. I don't think that the Legend would be a great live-aboard, nor round-the-cans, but as a comfortable cruiser, with loads of interior space, its no doubt great for the type of sailing that 90% of us do
You need to tell us what you are looking for in a yacht; what koind of sailing do you plan to do in the Legend. Wiyth the notable exception of the MacGregor, I don't blieve there is a fundamentally unsound boat, but each is better at different things. I don't think that the Legend would be a great live-aboard, nor round-the-cans, but as a comfortable cruiser, with loads of interior space, its no doubt great for the type of sailing that 90% of us do
lezgar
New member
Two years ago a chartered a 336 in de BVI. I think that there was a good sailing boat for the Caribbean. We were two adults + two children and there was a very confortable boat, fast in flat sea but no so good in bad weather (the boat had a taller mast that a 340 that sailing with us).
G
Guest
Guest
Tim,
People use surveyors for secondhand boats but why not employ one for a new one ? I would, no matter what company built it - it's a big outlay afterall. You may get additional 'beefing up' say if the surveyor says so in a report. What dealer is going to turn down a sale for a few extras ? The man who sails off the Lizard each week would want a different setup say from someone who sails in only July and August in Windermere.
Enjoy you're new boat !
You lucky fella !
People use surveyors for secondhand boats but why not employ one for a new one ? I would, no matter what company built it - it's a big outlay afterall. You may get additional 'beefing up' say if the surveyor says so in a report. What dealer is going to turn down a sale for a few extras ? The man who sails off the Lizard each week would want a different setup say from someone who sails in only July and August in Windermere.
Enjoy you're new boat !
You lucky fella !
Adrian_Morgan
New member
My posting was not totally facetious. Why, I ask, should anyone spend £65,000 on a new boat which, in one respondent's opinion, is not too good in bad weather. So, it's comfortable in a caravan-like way. It sails quite well. It has amazing amenities. It represents good value for money. But true comfort is the comfort that derives from a seakindly hull, not two heads and a linear galley.
And what are we to make of one respondent's suggestion that you employ a surveyor on a new, modern boat. It speaks volumes for his confidence in today's production boats. Very worrying.
Just think what a superb boat you could buy secondhand for that kind of money; something truly memorable; and with enough to employ a boatyard to look after it, and a mooring for life. I am, of course, talking classic wooden or glassfibre boats.
Why are we so keen to buy new boats, as if they were new cars (and just as soulless and prone to depreciation). Of the many thousands of boats out on a typical Solent day only a dozen will provoke admiration. The rest are like cars on a motorway. So, my advice remains: think before you sign. What could you buy with the money? Something you could really be proud to sail and which, when lying at anchor, would make you sigh with admiration. Something that goes to windward like a thoroughbred, doesn't slam, is finger light on the helm and responsive.
But I know in this mad consumer world, dominated by slick salesmen, that I am fighting a losing argument. So, enjoy your boat. But you did invite opinion.
And what are we to make of one respondent's suggestion that you employ a surveyor on a new, modern boat. It speaks volumes for his confidence in today's production boats. Very worrying.
Just think what a superb boat you could buy secondhand for that kind of money; something truly memorable; and with enough to employ a boatyard to look after it, and a mooring for life. I am, of course, talking classic wooden or glassfibre boats.
Why are we so keen to buy new boats, as if they were new cars (and just as soulless and prone to depreciation). Of the many thousands of boats out on a typical Solent day only a dozen will provoke admiration. The rest are like cars on a motorway. So, my advice remains: think before you sign. What could you buy with the money? Something you could really be proud to sail and which, when lying at anchor, would make you sigh with admiration. Something that goes to windward like a thoroughbred, doesn't slam, is finger light on the helm and responsive.
But I know in this mad consumer world, dominated by slick salesmen, that I am fighting a losing argument. So, enjoy your boat. But you did invite opinion.
billmacfarlane
Active member
Tim you asked a perfectly sane and sensible question and you don't really deserve one of the attempts at sarcasm here. I take it you've done you're homework and researched the market ? If not have a look NOW . If you're satisfied with your choice , depending on your sailing criteria then have you sailed her ? If not you really should. If you're then satisfied then check the terms for buying her. It varies greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer and the most important thing is to make sure is that the money you put down is fully protected in case the company goes to the wall. There's a lot of us sail production boats , we're probably the majority on this site , but certain others who sail things that should be on the Antiques Road Show seem only to seem to think that theirs is the only way. Good luck and enjoy you're choice. That's what its about after all.
david_e
Active member
10/10 for your enthusiasm for old boats Adrian, but there are many other things to be considered, these boats sell because thay appeal to a certain part of the market. I'm no Legend fan but I see that they have opened up a production plant in the UK so it can't be all bad. I also note that Tim sought information and advice and not opinion, give the guy some credit, anyone with £65k to spare will most likely have done some homework. He is also a new user and deserves a little more gentle treatment (IMHO).
zefender
Active member
Whatever you buy it will doubtless attract wrath from many quarters. Some people like leaky old vessels that need a lot of work, others manage to get along with something modern and comfortable in the kind of conditions they are likely to want to sail in. There can be little doubt that some older boats do look pretty and are comfortable in a blow etc etc. But, in my experience, for every decent one, there are 3 nasties that are simply vile, dank, spartan beasts to be on.
I assume you have looked around at what is available, having thought carefully about the kind of sailing you want to do over the next, say three years. If you've chosen the Legend, then that's fine. Any boat you choose will be a compromise. In terms of the price, have you factored in the all the extras you will need/want? Have you done all the test sails you want to, to compare different alternatives. What kind of crew will you be sailing with? My experience of Legends (out of the water only) is that they seem comfortable to be on at harbour, and are very well equipped. I do think some of the sailing bits seem a bit fragile but Legend are a huge company - I'd be surprised if the US consumer would accept total dross. The 'traditional wing' won't like anything that is less than 15 years old in terms of build of styling.
All the best
I assume you have looked around at what is available, having thought carefully about the kind of sailing you want to do over the next, say three years. If you've chosen the Legend, then that's fine. Any boat you choose will be a compromise. In terms of the price, have you factored in the all the extras you will need/want? Have you done all the test sails you want to, to compare different alternatives. What kind of crew will you be sailing with? My experience of Legends (out of the water only) is that they seem comfortable to be on at harbour, and are very well equipped. I do think some of the sailing bits seem a bit fragile but Legend are a huge company - I'd be surprised if the US consumer would accept total dross. The 'traditional wing' won't like anything that is less than 15 years old in terms of build of styling.
All the best
Mirelle
N/A
If it's what you want, buy it.
Never having bought a new boat, I really cannot offer any advice, except that a new boat depreciates very fast indeed, and you will inevitably spend quite a lot of money on odd bits of gear of the boathook, autopilot, fender, handbearing compass, kettle, charts, length of rope, VHF, dinghy, extra fender variety which add quite a bit to the cost.
I sail one of those dreadful old wooden things which seem to attract so much abuse on this forum, so my knowledge of new boats is limited.
Never having bought a new boat, I really cannot offer any advice, except that a new boat depreciates very fast indeed, and you will inevitably spend quite a lot of money on odd bits of gear of the boathook, autopilot, fender, handbearing compass, kettle, charts, length of rope, VHF, dinghy, extra fender variety which add quite a bit to the cost.
I sail one of those dreadful old wooden things which seem to attract so much abuse on this forum, so my knowledge of new boats is limited.
AndrewB
Well-known member
Chartered a Legend 310 in Canada last year.
A very pleasant boat to cruise and live aboard, it sailed like a dream in the flat water and light winds (F1-4) we had most the time. On the one occasion we had F5 and choppy water it kept going reefed but felt less controllable than the heavier boats I am used to.
The layout worked really well, and having all that equipment made everything easy. I liked the cockpit arch, anathema to the traditionalist. The electrics and plumbing were complex to my eye; probably a boat for having maintained by the yard rather than for a DIY enthusiast.
I was slightly disconcerted by a couple of things. The comparatively light rigging and lack of a backstay made me wonder if the rigging/mast would cope with much rough-water sailing. Also the maker's warning about not allowing the boat to go aground for fear of damage to the fin keel (on the east coast we are bumping all the time).
I think it would be a pleasure to own if your intention is undemanding summer cruising mostly in fairly sheltered water, such as the Solent. Quite capable of a cross-channel outing, though.
A very pleasant boat to cruise and live aboard, it sailed like a dream in the flat water and light winds (F1-4) we had most the time. On the one occasion we had F5 and choppy water it kept going reefed but felt less controllable than the heavier boats I am used to.
The layout worked really well, and having all that equipment made everything easy. I liked the cockpit arch, anathema to the traditionalist. The electrics and plumbing were complex to my eye; probably a boat for having maintained by the yard rather than for a DIY enthusiast.
I was slightly disconcerted by a couple of things. The comparatively light rigging and lack of a backstay made me wonder if the rigging/mast would cope with much rough-water sailing. Also the maker's warning about not allowing the boat to go aground for fear of damage to the fin keel (on the east coast we are bumping all the time).
I think it would be a pleasure to own if your intention is undemanding summer cruising mostly in fairly sheltered water, such as the Solent. Quite capable of a cross-channel outing, though.
zefender
Active member
Re: No abuse intended Mirelle
Promise! I was just seeking to redress the balance a bit by noting that there are good and bad boats - of any age.
Promise! I was just seeking to redress the balance a bit by noting that there are good and bad boats - of any age.
billmacfarlane
Active member
I think the rig on the boat's called a Bergstrom rig. As far as I know only Legends out of all the production boats use this rig. The swept back spreaders support the rig , which to look at look's weird , though it seems to work. The rig has one fairly large drawback in that the mainsail can't be set properly to run downwind as the spreaders get in the way. Hunter's answer is that it's sometimes quicker to tack downwind.
davel
Active member
Agree with much that's been said here about suitability of production boats for most of the people most of the time.
Had a look at the Legends at the boat show and was v impressed with the apparent value for money they offer. You seem to get a lot of well thought out kit for your money.
Only other thing I can give input on is based on a BVI charter a couple of years ago when I took a 29ft Legend. Boat sailed well and was well suited to that sort of cruising. However, it was in a pretty "tired" state. Everything worked OK but it looked well used. I've chartered on a good number of occasions, usually Bens and Jens and I know that charter boats do get worked hard but the Legend showed it's age more than any other boat I've had.
Dave L.
Had a look at the Legends at the boat show and was v impressed with the apparent value for money they offer. You seem to get a lot of well thought out kit for your money.
Only other thing I can give input on is based on a BVI charter a couple of years ago when I took a 29ft Legend. Boat sailed well and was well suited to that sort of cruising. However, it was in a pretty "tired" state. Everything worked OK but it looked well used. I've chartered on a good number of occasions, usually Bens and Jens and I know that charter boats do get worked hard but the Legend showed it's age more than any other boat I've had.
Dave L.
Adrian_Morgan
New member
A true legend
Sorry to bang on, but in my (I won't say humble) opinion more pleasure and true sailing experience can be had from a really good old 'un (we are not talking leaky) than an expensive new one. We are not talking sarcasm here, but advice and opinion based on many years' experience.
I would like to know the exact cost of this new Legend. My guess was £65,000. I may be way out. In any case, the extras needed to equip even a well-equipped new production boat will add at least 10 per cent to purchase price. That makes buying new a very costly exercise, and depreciation is horrific (unless it's one of the few highly sought after so-called classics).
My contention is simply this: buy secondhand; buy carefully; buy well; buy a classic and spend the balance on a mooring, refit (if needed) and keep the rest for a rainy day. I wouldn't suggest wood, necessarily, for a boat over 30ft unless you enjoy varnishing and painting. But just think: you could buy a gorgeous, well-found 35-footer for £20,000, pitch pine or teak on oak, the envy of everyone, and still have enough to hire a professional shipwright for 45 years to lay on a pre-season coat of flawless enamel when needed and keep her in pristine condition.
Be warned: your glassfibre topsides will be looking pretty tired in three years' time. Glassfibre is far from maintenance free. And I note that no one has praised the rugged, seakindly, windward virtues of your intended. You will get caught out in a blow, wherever you sail and relying on a powerful engine will only add to the RNLI statistics.
Besides, why this modern mania for brand new? And it's not as if you were buying British (the profits go straight back to the US).
My advice is to buy a true legend.
Sorry to bang on, but in my (I won't say humble) opinion more pleasure and true sailing experience can be had from a really good old 'un (we are not talking leaky) than an expensive new one. We are not talking sarcasm here, but advice and opinion based on many years' experience.
I would like to know the exact cost of this new Legend. My guess was £65,000. I may be way out. In any case, the extras needed to equip even a well-equipped new production boat will add at least 10 per cent to purchase price. That makes buying new a very costly exercise, and depreciation is horrific (unless it's one of the few highly sought after so-called classics).
My contention is simply this: buy secondhand; buy carefully; buy well; buy a classic and spend the balance on a mooring, refit (if needed) and keep the rest for a rainy day. I wouldn't suggest wood, necessarily, for a boat over 30ft unless you enjoy varnishing and painting. But just think: you could buy a gorgeous, well-found 35-footer for £20,000, pitch pine or teak on oak, the envy of everyone, and still have enough to hire a professional shipwright for 45 years to lay on a pre-season coat of flawless enamel when needed and keep her in pristine condition.
Be warned: your glassfibre topsides will be looking pretty tired in three years' time. Glassfibre is far from maintenance free. And I note that no one has praised the rugged, seakindly, windward virtues of your intended. You will get caught out in a blow, wherever you sail and relying on a powerful engine will only add to the RNLI statistics.
Besides, why this modern mania for brand new? And it's not as if you were buying British (the profits go straight back to the US).
My advice is to buy a true legend.
Mr Cassandra
Well-known member
Second hand info only. when in Levkas we use Contract Yacht services When wingin about costs for my Jeanneau. Joe Charlton the owner of CYS Stated thank god you don`t own one of these, pointing at a Legend ,the poor bugger who owns this has always got his hand in his pocket as nealy everything fails .Sorry Bob T
Bob T
Bob T
jamesjermain
Active member
A full report on the Legend 356 will appear in the March issue of YM. I am told (I did not do this test myself), that there are some interesting comments in it.
JJ
JJ
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Ooh, you old tease!. NM
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