Legal and moral responsibilities at sea

Oh come on guys , there a world of difference from plucking someone from the sea ,
to taken off a bunch of people off a boat that's is not sunking , even if it's a choppy sea .
and in a good chop let alone a heavy sea you have one hell of a time getting them on board without endangering their life more .
Most of us have high top sides , just trying to get out of a dinghy on a flat day and climb over the rails for the most fittest person can be too much .
The official advise is stand by and call it in ,
@ puff the magic dragon , I can understand where your coming from , I know the island very well make two visit each year , and I agree for a small island of 25 by 15 miles Maltese island is sunking with the amount of for a better word asylum seekers,
Here in the U.K. We are jumping up and down with just a hand full arriving on our shore where Malta has had thousands to deal with and unlike Malta we have already send some back to France .
my personally experience from talking to some in Malta is there are anony to be brought to Malta as there aim was Europe main land so they can make there way north . There gratitude for you .
 
Last edited:
PuffTheMagicDragon said:
Really think so? How many 'refugees' have you seen while landing from the rescue boats? These are mostly well-fed, wearing Nike, Adidas and similar wear. They come from sub-Sahara, Eritrea, Bangladesh, Somalia, Egypt, Mali, etc., and have lived for a considerable time working in Libya before paying $2,000 per person to the traffickers for the trip to Europe. They know that the boats are going to be crowded and that they are not suitable for seafaring. (You mention the Channel. Is that 20 miles?; Malta is some 222 nautical miles from Tripoli).
BUT, they also know that they will be 'saved' because the NGO ships will be waiting for them and they know exactly where they will be found. Who is funding these 'rescue ships'? There are strong indications that it could well be the traffickers themselves. The registration of one of the ships was withdrawn by Gibraltar. Another ship is - so far - registered in the Netherlands but is run by a German NGO. Neither of these countries wants to recognise or 'own' these operations.
There is more to what the NGOs, through the media, want you to know, much more.
Click to expand...

They all also seem to have working smart phones, well capable of getting a signal midchannel to call for help.
 
sailaboutvic said:
Oh come on guys , there a world of difference from plucking someone from the sea ,
to taken off a bunch of people off a boat that's is not sunking , even if it's a choppy sea .
and in a good chop let alone a heavy sea you have one hell of a time getting them on board without endangering their life more .
Most of us have high top sides , just trying to get out of a dinghy on a flat day and climb over the rails for the most fittest person can be too much .
The official advise is stand by and call it in ,
@ puff the magic dragon , I can understand where your coming from , I know the island very well make two visit each year , and I agree for a small island of 25 by 15 miles Maltese island is sunking with the amount of for a better word asylum seekers,
Here in the U.K. We are jumping up and down with just a hand full arriving on our shore where Malta has had thousands to deal with and unlike Malta we have already send some back to France .
my personally experience from talking to some in Malta is there are anony to be brought to Malta as there aim was Europe main land so they can make there way north . There gratitude for you .
Click to expand...

Do not the 'rescued' when on your yacht, then become the responsibility of the Country whose 'flag' you are wearing?
 
The natural human response to assist fellow seafarers is commendable. In practice, some of those on said raft may be armed. That's the opinion of the Calais Gendarme not mine; apparently a trafficker often accompanies the boat out of the French port and is taken off somewhere mid-Channel.

Before or after the unsuspecting sailor arrives on scene? Who knows.

So, I would follow the official advice and immediately radio the appropriate Coastguard(s). A helo(s) will in practice be on the scene within 20m or so, ready to assist in ways we could not. How much is one seriously going to get done in that 20m?

Hence the first-line advice to deploy inflatables, LRs, etc. to the extent available. Then assess, followed in 99.9% of cases by waiting for the professionals to arrive.
 
alant said:
Do not the 'rescued' when on your yacht, then become the responsibility of the Country whose 'flag' you are wearing?
Click to expand...

Sadly not Alant , you only got to go back a few months when a boat carrying a Dutch flag tried that one on , this is why the Dutch and the Belgium are now stopping anyone flaying there country flag unless the owners are Dutch or Belgium .
In the case of Malta , the Italian have drop people off on the island .
 
dom said:
The natural human response to assist fellow seafarers is commendable. In practice, some of those on said raft may be armed. That's the opinion of the Calais Gendarme not mine; apparently a trafficker often accompanies the boat out of the French port and is taken off somewhere mid-Channel.

Before or after the unsuspecting sailor arrives on scene? Who knows.

So, I would follow the official advice and immediately radio the appropriate Coastguard(s). A helo(s) will in practice be on the scene within 20m or so, ready to assist in ways we could not. How much is one seriously going to get done in that 20m?

Hence the first-line advice to deploy inflatables, LRs, etc. to the extent available. Then assess, followed in 99.9% of cases by waiting for the professionals to arrive.
Click to expand...

This is the most common sense approach , and by not following common sense you endanger not only yourself and crew but those on the dinghy as well.
The first priority as said by all maritime services is only assist as long as it does not put yourself or vessel at risk
Why would you rush out onto the ice to help someone and go through it , this olny makes two to be rescued.
Those that have humanity at the core is an admirable outlook on life and you should not change , but you are better alive than dead to help others in the future.
 
I am glad my boat is in North Wales...
I assume the Irish aren't desperate to claim asylum in Wales and if any French departed vessel makes it up our way, they are good enough to look after themselves!
 
Part of the reason for the very different attitudes exhibited here is the wildly different circumstances! Migrants crossing the English Channel or North Sea are inevitably coming from a country that is a safe haven. They aren't escaping war, famine or persecution - they've already escaped from those, and are in a safe country. For whatever reason they see Britain as more secure or whatever than France, Belgium or Holland. So, they aren't people escaping from insecurity; they are basically economic migrants, and their plan to cross to Britain has almost certainly been masterminded by criminal gangs. As they know that they will almost certainly be deported if in official hands, they have a strong motive to avoid being placed in official hands, and if rescued by a capable vessel with a weak crew, they have a strong motive for ensuring that they aren't handed over to officials. Finally, in British, French, Belgian or Dutch waters there is an efficient and rapidly available rescue service. Therefore, in my normal cruising ground I would avoid putting myself in their power, and would otherwise offer exactly the same help as I would any other vessel in distress - which would be to stand by and do a Mayday Relay.

The situation in the Mediterranean is far different. Here, people may well be escaping directly from war, famine or persecution, and although the migrant operation is operated by what we would describe as criminal gangs, the people using their services are driven by pressures we cannot really comprehend. Further, the crossing is longer and riskier. While I sympathize with the southern European countries feeling that the rest of the EU doesn't take its share, the people involved are far more liklely to be granted refugee status if they reach a European country. Therefore, they should have no motive to attempt to take over a rescuing vessel. Further, the rescue services are more widely spread and less likely to have a rapid response. In those circumstances I don't know what I'd do - but I certainly wouldn't leave them to their fate!

In both cases I would do all I could to assist the people at risk, but my response would be tailored to the circumstances of those attempting a clandestine crossing, the geopoliticqal circumstances and the availability of state rescue services.
 
LBRodders said:
I am glad my boat is in North Wales...
I assume the Irish aren't desperate to claim asylum in Wales and if any French departed vessel makes it up our way, they are good enough to look after themselves!
Click to expand...

I have exactly the same thought about the boat being based in North Wales.
I am glad that I am never going to be likely the have to make the decision.
 
Mister E said:
I have exactly the same thought about the boat being based in North Wales.
I am glad that I am never going to be likely the have to make the decision.
Click to expand...

A vanishingly small proportion of us will ever be faced with the possibility, but some people enjoy getting worked up about nothing. :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top