Leaking Pulpit mounting

[tonywardle]

I'm looking for little bit of advice here.....
I recently purchased a Seamaster 815 Bilge keeler. The survey mentioned the forecabin was wet due to a small leak on the deck fittings. Its not something I want to live with though so started to investigate this weekend. The forcabin has a bulkhead separating the anchor locker. Looking inside I couldn't see the pulpit mounting bolts, not in the cabin. Taking out the bulkhead revealed the bolts were in the middle of the bulkhead, inaccessible. In fact they had been glassed in - one without a nut and washer (washer not enough in my opinion)! I just though I'd check my intended course of action with you guys first to see if sensible.

I want to cut out the fibreglass where they had glassed in the bulkhead and roof fillet, to give me flat access to the pulpit bolts. I will straighten the slight bend the deck mounting plates so they fit flush to the deck (it looks like the previous owner has hit something with he pulpit). I want to remove the pulpit from the deck and clen up all the previous caulking to try) and dry out the hole and area. I will remount the pulpit on Butyl after countersinking the holes and back the 3 bolts with a 2mm stainless steel plate.

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Then I'll remount a bulkhead sloping to the stern to ensure all the bolts are in the anchor locker and accessible. Then I will glass in the bulkhead, fillet, new side fillets etc to make a waterproof locker.

Does this sound sensible?

 

[Spyro]

Could you move the pulpit back or forward a few inches and drill new holes away from the bulkhead? Seal up the old ones with epoxy?

 

[dovekie]

Well done so far, you've done a great job exposing the problem. Having taken the bulkhead out, it seems to me that you can reposition the either bulkhead or the pulpit to solve it. I think your solution is good as long as you have access to the anchor locker. Indeed, if the anchor locker drains overboard, the odd drip from a pulpit bolt within it, may not bother you. I hope others comment, there are some clever and ingenious people on here!

 

[Daydream believer]

Will the butyl not compress over time thus allowing a further leak?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I had a similarish problem on my Westerly Jouster. In that case someone in a rib hit one of my stanchions hard and broke the base, when I tried to replace it I found that the backing plate was completely inaccessible as it had been glassed under the deck moulding which was then fitted to the hull with the plate immediately above the main bulkhead. Getting at it would have been a huge amount of work, so instead I had made a 5mm rectangular stainless adaptor plate with a bend which fitted over the old mounting position and an inch down the topsides. That plate was fixed with epoxy and through-bolts wider than the old base and therefore accessible, and the new base was bolted to tapped holes in the adaptor plate. Quarter of an inch off the stanchion with a cutting disk finished the job and kept the guardrails straight.

Not the prettiest possible job, but far, far easier than the alternative.

tl;dr: An adaptor plate might help by allowing through-deck bolts in different positions from the stanchion base ones.

 

[tonywardle]

Hi DB,

I'm reading a lot about butyl being the bedding or choice for deck fitting. The countersink allows the butyl to form a good seal on the bolts, as long as I tighten the nut not the screw. It also provides a good seal deck to pulpit plate - I haven't done this before so hence my question out to the learned.

 

[tonywardle]

Hi Jumble Duck, Now that is an interesting thought - moving the pulpit stern fitting. I already think its asymetric as the Stbd side fitting is further astern than the port. But that looks as though it was when the boat was built in 1980. There are no alternate filled holes I can detect. I think this maybe my plan B - possibly to use a plumbers pipe bender and either the current pulpit base or new stanchion bases to relocate the deck fitting into a more accessible place. The front fitting on the pulpit is a single cotter fitting into the bow plate which will rise up and down. Thanks for this - I hadn't thought of these angles before....

 

[tonywardle]

Hi Spyro, Thanks I'm beginning to think this is the right solution. Question now is forward or astern?

 

[tonywardle]

Hi dovekie, thanks after returning to sailing after 30 years for my retirement - these things are not going away. I hadn't thought of moving the pulpit fitting - simple really when you think about it. That's what forums (fora) are for.
The forecabin is where my wife intends to sleep, so it needs to be near perfect

 

[Daydream believer]

Hi DB,

I'm reading a lot about butyl being the bedding or choice for deck fitting. The countersink allows the butyl to form a good seal on the bolts, as long as I tighten the nut not the screw. It also provides a good seal deck to pulpit plate - I haven't done this before so hence my question out to the learned.

The problem may occur if you have a thickness of butyl beneath the plates of the pulpit rather than something solid. the butyl will gradually creep out. I can see the point about it being around the bolts so , presumably, an oversized hole with butyl around the bolt will solve the issue. however, if one just placed a layer of butyl from a mastic gun onto the deck & tightened the plate down leaving, say, 3-4mm of bedding then that could eject over time. This would allow water to get to the bolt & in to the boat.
Am I correct, or is there some other reasoning here?
I say this because I am aware of this happening on a balcony roof where the balustrade balusters started leaking. I know this is different, but not entirely.

Re the re positioning of the pulpit. Remember this will alter guardrail wires length & if you do not have corded ends which can be tightened or lengthened then you may be in for an extra cost

 

[tonywardle]

Hi DB,
I'm not really sure of the final outcome. But the butyl is more like a very thick blue-tack. It comes on a roll and is used in the RV business heavily as it does not set and has a high tack adhesion. I ordered some and think it coud be preferable to silicone based seals, or SikaFlex type mastic delivered from a gun. Already the previous owner has tried to seal many times with mastic (both sides of the pulpit)

I guess I'm relying on the plate to be flush with the deck (and forecabin roof) but the holes to be sealed with butyl.

 

[Spyro]

Hi DB,
I'm not really sure of the final outcome. But the butyl is more like a very thick blue-tack. It comes on a roll and is used in the RV business heavily as it does not set and has a high tack adhesion. I ordered some and think it coud be preferable to silicone based seals, or SikaFlex type mastic delivered from a gun. Already the previous owner has tried to seal many times with mastic (both sides of the pulpit)

I guess I'm relying on the plate to be flush with the deck (and forecabin roof) but the holes to be sealed with butyl.

You need to have a seal around the bolt heads and thread. I'd go with something like sikaflex or ct1. Mask off the area around the base before applying. The sealer will squeeze into every crack as you tighten the bolts. The secret is don't overtighten. Let the sealer set then tighten up some more.

 

[Daydream believer]

Hi DB,
I'm not really sure of the final outcome. But the butyl is more like a very thick blue-tack. It comes on a roll and is used in the RV business heavily as it does not set and has a high tack adhesion. I ordered some and think it coud be preferable to silicone based seals, or SikaFlex type mastic delivered from a gun. Already the previous owner has tried to seal many times with mastic (both sides of the pulpit)

I guess I'm relying on the plate to be flush with the deck (and forecabin roof) but the holes to be sealed with butyl.

I also have a roll at home. My son uses it in the curtain walling industry & has also warned me of the issue of it extruding from the joint. If the pulpit flexes it may exacerbate the situation. But if used properly it is perfectly Ok.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I also have a roll at home. My son uses it in the curtain walling industry ...

Coo, wouldn't have thought there was much of that left.