narooma
Well-Known Member
Hi, Does anyone out there know the traditional markings for a lead line. ie distances and materials used at each point?
lead line.
- Thread starter narooma
- Start date
Rustyknight
Well-Known Member
2 fathoms from the lead - 2 strips of leather.
3 fathoms from the lead - 3 strips of leather.
5 fathoms from the lead - a piece of white cloth.
7 fathoms from the lead - a piece of red cloth.
10 fathoms from the lead - a piece of leather with a hole in it.
13 fathoms from the lead - a piece of blue cloth.
15 fathoms from the lead - same as for 5 fathoms.
17 fathoms from the lead - same as for 7 fathoms.
20 fathoms from the lead - small line with 2 knots.
25 fathoms from the lead - small line with 1 knot.
30 fathoms from the lead - small line with 3 knots.
35 fathoms from the lead - small line with 1 knot.
40 fathoms from the lead - small line with 4 knots
3 fathoms from the lead - 3 strips of leather.
5 fathoms from the lead - a piece of white cloth.
7 fathoms from the lead - a piece of red cloth.
10 fathoms from the lead - a piece of leather with a hole in it.
13 fathoms from the lead - a piece of blue cloth.
15 fathoms from the lead - same as for 5 fathoms.
17 fathoms from the lead - same as for 7 fathoms.
20 fathoms from the lead - small line with 2 knots.
25 fathoms from the lead - small line with 1 knot.
30 fathoms from the lead - small line with 3 knots.
35 fathoms from the lead - small line with 1 knot.
40 fathoms from the lead - small line with 4 knots
narooma
Well-Known Member
thanks rusty
peteandthira
Well-Known Member
This HAS to be a wind-up, SHURELY!!!!!!
A. Modern-Boater!!!
A. Modern-Boater!!!
G
Guest
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
This HAS to be a wind-up, SHURELY!!!!!!
A. Modern-Boater!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Shurely???????? Surely not! Tee-Heeeeee!
No it aint a wind up you silly old wazzock, boats didn't always come with electrickery various! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
This HAS to be a wind-up, SHURELY!!!!!!
A. Modern-Boater!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Shurely???????? Surely not! Tee-Heeeeee!
No it aint a wind up you silly old wazzock, boats didn't always come with electrickery various! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Rustyknight
Well-Known Member
A wind up????????????? Some mistake, surely! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
For that insinuation, you can now suffer the entire section on The Lead, taken from the "Text-book of Seamanship" 1891......
THE LEAD.
Soundings, to ascertain the depth of water on entering or leaving a port, or in any case where there is supposed to be less than twenty fathoms of water, are taken by the hand lead, Fig. 3, a quartermaster or forecastle-man being stationed in the main chains for the purpose; the lead weighing, from seven to fourteen pounds, and the line being from twenty. to thirty fathoms in length. Hand lead lines are marked as follows:
At 2 fathoms from the lead, with 2 strips of leather.
At 3 fathoms from the lead, with 3 strips of leather.
At 5 fathoms from the lead, with a white rag.
At 7 fathoms from the lead, with a red rag.
At 10 fathoms from the lead, with leather, having a hole in it.
At 13 fathoms from the lead, as at 3.
At 15 fathoms from the lead, as at 5.
At 17 fathoms from the lead, as at 7.
At 20 fathoms from the lead, with 2 knots.
At 25 fathoms from the lead, with one knot.
At 30 fathoms from the lead, with three knots.
At 35 fathoms from the lead, with one knot.
At 40 fathoms from the lead, with four knots. And so on.
These are known as the "marks." The numbers omitted, as 1, 4, 6, 8, &c., are called the "deeps," and they are spoken of together as the "marks and deeps of the lead line."
All lead lines should be marked when wet.
Soundings by the hand-lead are taken while the vessel has headway on, the leadsman throwing the lead forward, and getting the depth as the vessel passes, while the line is nearly perpendicular. He communicates to the officer the soundings obtained, thus:
If the depth corresponds with either of the above marks, he says, "By the mark 5 or 7. If the mark is a little below the surface, he says, "Mark under water 5 or 7." If the depth is greater, or one half more than any of the marks, he says, "And a quarter," or "And a half 5 or 7." If the depth is a quarter less, he says, "Quarter less 5 or 7." If he judges by the distance between any two of the marks that the depth of water is 4, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 16, 18, 19, or 21 fathoms, he says, "By the deep 4," &c.
On the hand-lead line there are nine "marks" and eleven "deeps."
Require the soundings to be given in a sharp, clear and decided tone of voice. In steamers, this is certainly the best plan, for while the old-fashioned "song" is being drawled out, the vessel may run ashore.
The Breast-band or Rope, generally the former, made of canvas, secured at both ends to the rigging, supports the body of the leadsman while heaving the hand-lead.
Besides the breast-band, it is a very good plan to have fitted, in connection with it, a tarpaulin apron, to cover the "leadsman" from the feet to the waist. This keeps him dry and adds much to his comfort.
On going into the chains for the purpose of sounding, the leadsman should see the breast-rope properly secured; his line clear, and the end made fast. If at night, he should take the distance from the breast-rope to the water's edge; then at each cast deduct this distance from the mark at hand and give it as the true sounding.
The Coasting Lead is used in depths from 25 to 100 fathoms, the lead weighing from 25 to 50 pounds.
The Deep-sea Lead is used in depths of over 100 fathoms, and weighs from 80 to 150 pounds.
Both coasting and deep-sea (pronounced "dipsey") leads are hollowed out at the base to receive an arming of tallow. When the lead strikes, the tallow becomes coated with sand, pebbles, shells or other substances which show the character of the bottom. This information, compared with the description of the sea bottom given on the chart, may prove of value in determining the ship's position. Instead of being hollowed out at the bottom, the deep-sea lead may have a specimen cup, of brass, at the end, as shown in Fig. 4. The coasting and deep-sea lines are marked alike as follows:
10 fathoms, one knot.
20 fathoms, two knots.
30 fathoms, 3 knots, &c., &c., and at every intermediate five fathoms by small strands. At 100 fathoms the line is marked with a piece of red bunting.
To Sound with the Deep-sea Lead. The men are ranged outside the vessel from the weather mizzen chains to the cathead. The line is passed forward outside and clear of everything. The lead is sent forward on deck, and the line bent to it by the captain of the forecastle. The line is then hauled forward, each man collecting a coil of several fathoms in his hand, commencing forward, until the officer thinks there is line enough out. It is then snatched in a small snatch-block, Fig. 5, secured to the after mizzen rigging, or to the weather spanker yang, the remaining part of it being coiled down in a tub or rack, or wound on a reel, clear for running. Everything being in readiness, and the vessel's headway sufficiently deadened, the officer orders, Stand by! Heave! The captain of the forecastle heaves the lead as far forward as he can, and at the same time cries, Watch-ho! Watch! And each man, as the line runs out from his hand, holds it clear of the side, and repeats the cry, Watch-ho! Watch! In the mean while, the line runs out until the lead touches the bottom, or until a sufficient quantity has been run out to satisfy the officer that no bottom has been found. The men then lay aft and man the line! and walk forward with it; a petty officer being stationed by it, to note the depth of water by the first mark that comes in.
If bottom has been found, it will instantly be known by the line bringing up suddenly in running out, or by the arming on the lead after it is hauled up; by which the nature of the bottom is known.
To get sounding by the deep-sea lead while lying to in a gale, or in any case when the vessel drifts much to leeward, it is proper to pass the line from to windward around the stern, and then forward on the lee side, and to heave the lead from to leeward, which will bring the line nearly perpendicular by the time the lead touches the bottom.
In heaving the deep-sea lead, the men stationed in the chains should be cautioned not to let the line go until they feel the lead take it, for if the ship is in much shoaler water than was anticipated, it is thus detected at once.
Besides the common lead, there are a variety of "patents" for sounding; the one known as Massey's lead, being about the most successful. In this, a machine is attached to the lead, and a fan set in motion by its descent. The motion is communicated to a register wheel, and the number of fathoms corresponding to the depth of water is pointed out by an indicator. This lead should also have a good arming of tallow to bring up specimens of the bottom.
The Drift Lead. While at single anchor, it is proper always to have a lead somewhat heavier than the hand-lead, say from fourteen to twenty pounds, over the side, and resting on the bottom, with a man to attend it. Of course, this is only necessary in a stiff breeze, or at night. But in a vessel-of-war, it should be observed as a standing rule, without regard to the weather. By this you will have instant notice if the vessel parts her cable or drags her anchor.
For that insinuation, you can now suffer the entire section on The Lead, taken from the "Text-book of Seamanship" 1891......
THE LEAD.
Soundings, to ascertain the depth of water on entering or leaving a port, or in any case where there is supposed to be less than twenty fathoms of water, are taken by the hand lead, Fig. 3, a quartermaster or forecastle-man being stationed in the main chains for the purpose; the lead weighing, from seven to fourteen pounds, and the line being from twenty. to thirty fathoms in length. Hand lead lines are marked as follows:
At 2 fathoms from the lead, with 2 strips of leather.
At 3 fathoms from the lead, with 3 strips of leather.
At 5 fathoms from the lead, with a white rag.
At 7 fathoms from the lead, with a red rag.
At 10 fathoms from the lead, with leather, having a hole in it.
At 13 fathoms from the lead, as at 3.
At 15 fathoms from the lead, as at 5.
At 17 fathoms from the lead, as at 7.
At 20 fathoms from the lead, with 2 knots.
At 25 fathoms from the lead, with one knot.
At 30 fathoms from the lead, with three knots.
At 35 fathoms from the lead, with one knot.
At 40 fathoms from the lead, with four knots. And so on.
These are known as the "marks." The numbers omitted, as 1, 4, 6, 8, &c., are called the "deeps," and they are spoken of together as the "marks and deeps of the lead line."
All lead lines should be marked when wet.
Soundings by the hand-lead are taken while the vessel has headway on, the leadsman throwing the lead forward, and getting the depth as the vessel passes, while the line is nearly perpendicular. He communicates to the officer the soundings obtained, thus:
If the depth corresponds with either of the above marks, he says, "By the mark 5 or 7. If the mark is a little below the surface, he says, "Mark under water 5 or 7." If the depth is greater, or one half more than any of the marks, he says, "And a quarter," or "And a half 5 or 7." If the depth is a quarter less, he says, "Quarter less 5 or 7." If he judges by the distance between any two of the marks that the depth of water is 4, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 16, 18, 19, or 21 fathoms, he says, "By the deep 4," &c.
On the hand-lead line there are nine "marks" and eleven "deeps."
Require the soundings to be given in a sharp, clear and decided tone of voice. In steamers, this is certainly the best plan, for while the old-fashioned "song" is being drawled out, the vessel may run ashore.
The Breast-band or Rope, generally the former, made of canvas, secured at both ends to the rigging, supports the body of the leadsman while heaving the hand-lead.
Besides the breast-band, it is a very good plan to have fitted, in connection with it, a tarpaulin apron, to cover the "leadsman" from the feet to the waist. This keeps him dry and adds much to his comfort.
On going into the chains for the purpose of sounding, the leadsman should see the breast-rope properly secured; his line clear, and the end made fast. If at night, he should take the distance from the breast-rope to the water's edge; then at each cast deduct this distance from the mark at hand and give it as the true sounding.
The Coasting Lead is used in depths from 25 to 100 fathoms, the lead weighing from 25 to 50 pounds.
The Deep-sea Lead is used in depths of over 100 fathoms, and weighs from 80 to 150 pounds.
Both coasting and deep-sea (pronounced "dipsey") leads are hollowed out at the base to receive an arming of tallow. When the lead strikes, the tallow becomes coated with sand, pebbles, shells or other substances which show the character of the bottom. This information, compared with the description of the sea bottom given on the chart, may prove of value in determining the ship's position. Instead of being hollowed out at the bottom, the deep-sea lead may have a specimen cup, of brass, at the end, as shown in Fig. 4. The coasting and deep-sea lines are marked alike as follows:
10 fathoms, one knot.
20 fathoms, two knots.
30 fathoms, 3 knots, &c., &c., and at every intermediate five fathoms by small strands. At 100 fathoms the line is marked with a piece of red bunting.
To Sound with the Deep-sea Lead. The men are ranged outside the vessel from the weather mizzen chains to the cathead. The line is passed forward outside and clear of everything. The lead is sent forward on deck, and the line bent to it by the captain of the forecastle. The line is then hauled forward, each man collecting a coil of several fathoms in his hand, commencing forward, until the officer thinks there is line enough out. It is then snatched in a small snatch-block, Fig. 5, secured to the after mizzen rigging, or to the weather spanker yang, the remaining part of it being coiled down in a tub or rack, or wound on a reel, clear for running. Everything being in readiness, and the vessel's headway sufficiently deadened, the officer orders, Stand by! Heave! The captain of the forecastle heaves the lead as far forward as he can, and at the same time cries, Watch-ho! Watch! And each man, as the line runs out from his hand, holds it clear of the side, and repeats the cry, Watch-ho! Watch! In the mean while, the line runs out until the lead touches the bottom, or until a sufficient quantity has been run out to satisfy the officer that no bottom has been found. The men then lay aft and man the line! and walk forward with it; a petty officer being stationed by it, to note the depth of water by the first mark that comes in.
If bottom has been found, it will instantly be known by the line bringing up suddenly in running out, or by the arming on the lead after it is hauled up; by which the nature of the bottom is known.
To get sounding by the deep-sea lead while lying to in a gale, or in any case when the vessel drifts much to leeward, it is proper to pass the line from to windward around the stern, and then forward on the lee side, and to heave the lead from to leeward, which will bring the line nearly perpendicular by the time the lead touches the bottom.
In heaving the deep-sea lead, the men stationed in the chains should be cautioned not to let the line go until they feel the lead take it, for if the ship is in much shoaler water than was anticipated, it is thus detected at once.
Besides the common lead, there are a variety of "patents" for sounding; the one known as Massey's lead, being about the most successful. In this, a machine is attached to the lead, and a fan set in motion by its descent. The motion is communicated to a register wheel, and the number of fathoms corresponding to the depth of water is pointed out by an indicator. This lead should also have a good arming of tallow to bring up specimens of the bottom.
The Drift Lead. While at single anchor, it is proper always to have a lead somewhat heavier than the hand-lead, say from fourteen to twenty pounds, over the side, and resting on the bottom, with a man to attend it. Of course, this is only necessary in a stiff breeze, or at night. But in a vessel-of-war, it should be observed as a standing rule, without regard to the weather. By this you will have instant notice if the vessel parts her cable or drags her anchor.
G
Guest
Guest
You will have to make allowances for Poppy chops, they didn't have lead lines as standard equipment on Sopwith Camels! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hugh Foulis
Well-Known Member
Fabulous. Is that not a pleasant way to pass 10 mins while waiting for the slates to blow off the roof?
peteandthira
Well-Known Member
Rustyknight
Er, you have me severely disadvantaged Sir! I am now truly educated in the measurement of one's depth. Surely I was out of mine!
Ha ha and well done. Smiffy, shut up!! (edit - sorry, forgot the smiley thing but don't know how to add it now!)
Pops
Er, you have me severely disadvantaged Sir! I am now truly educated in the measurement of one's depth. Surely I was out of mine!
Ha ha and well done. Smiffy, shut up!! (edit - sorry, forgot the smiley thing but don't know how to add it now!)
Pops
G
Guest
Guest
Pah! that'll teach ya ta take the piss out of smiffy! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gotcha twice on one thread! yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gotcha twice on one thread! yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
narooma
Well-Known Member
Re Sopwith Camel.. actually they did but they called it a brake!
catmandoo
Well-Known Member
you forgot to post FIG 3
G
Guest
Guest
Chortle! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Ex flyboy see, completely at sea, on a boat! What's the difference between the RAF and a chocolate fireguard?
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None, they are both bloody useless! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Ex flyboy see, completely at sea, on a boat! What's the difference between the RAF and a chocolate fireguard?
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None, they are both bloody useless! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Rustyknight
Well-Known Member
There's always one bloody whinger isn't there...... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt, and thought they knew what a lump of lead tied onto a bit of string looked like........ DOH! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Seriously, if you want to look at the complete book, here's the link Text-book of Seamanship
And here's figure 3 (at the bottom)
I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt, and thought they knew what a lump of lead tied onto a bit of string looked like........ DOH! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Seriously, if you want to look at the complete book, here's the link Text-book of Seamanship
And here's figure 3 (at the bottom)
G
Guest
Guest
Perhaps for the benefit of the nautically challenged, (no names no pack drill), you could mention the Tallow? I am sure he will find that most interesting /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Rustyknight
Well-Known Member
Isn't it already mentioned in my second post? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Hmmmmmm..... sounds more like you lost the will to live before you read that far, and went down the pub instead. Just for that, I'll now post an image of an aforementioned lead, armed with tallow.
Hmmmmmm..... sounds more like you lost the will to live before you read that far, and went down the pub instead. Just for that, I'll now post an image of an aforementioned lead, armed with tallow.
G
Guest
Guest
Well you see, I have got one of those on my boat that I actually use from time to time, just to keep me hand in at "swinging the lead"...............
But you see, poor old Pops... being of the Aero Nautical (if ever there was a conflict in terms) persuasion, probably has never seen one and doesn't know why it is armed with tallow?
Probably thinks it's summat to do with anti submarine warfare /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
But you see, poor old Pops... being of the Aero Nautical (if ever there was a conflict in terms) persuasion, probably has never seen one and doesn't know why it is armed with tallow?
Probably thinks it's summat to do with anti submarine warfare /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
peteandthira
Well-Known Member
Bu99er. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I'll think of summat in a minnit! ("Smiffy-Speak")
I'll think of summat in a minnit! ("Smiffy-Speak")
G
Guest
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
Bu99er. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I'll think of summat in a minnit! ("Smiffy-Speak")
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, come on then, I is waiting!............ZZZZZ......ZZZZZZZ.............ZZZZZZZZ
Bu99er. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I'll think of summat in a minnit! ("Smiffy-Speak")
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, come on then, I is waiting!............ZZZZZ......ZZZZZZZ.............ZZZZZZZZ
peteandthira
Well-Known Member
"But you see, poor old Pops... being of the Aero Nautical (if ever there was a conflict in terms) persuasion, probably has never seen one and doesn't know why it is armed with tallow?"
Similar to military intelligence? Good old oxymorons! - Pops has popped out (no pun intended) from Pop's SWIMBO!!
Similar to military intelligence? Good old oxymorons! - Pops has popped out (no pun intended) from Pop's SWIMBO!!
