Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
Exactly that.
Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report
- Thread starter dom
- Start date
Exactly that.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
A pair of overalls filled with plastic water bottles is a good start.
lw395
Well-Known Member
The backwards towing tether looks like a great improvement if your tether is so longthat you are indeed being towed through the water.
But is good if your tether is short enough to stop you before yyou get that far?
I'm thinking for example about when I'm working at the mast, hooked on to a strongpoint at the mast base.
If I fell with the tether I normally use, the furthest I could go would be with my chest on the lee toe rail.
I'd rather be face down in this position, able to grab (e.g. jib sheet) with my arms, not face up with my back bent over the rail.
The 'cut to the cause' solution for the Clipper incident is to stop all these paying guests poncing about playing at 1970s sailors on the foredeck and fit furling gear like the real racers.
But is good if your tether is short enough to stop you before yyou get that far?
I'm thinking for example about when I'm working at the mast, hooked on to a strongpoint at the mast base.
If I fell with the tether I normally use, the furthest I could go would be with my chest on the lee toe rail.
I'd rather be face down in this position, able to grab (e.g. jib sheet) with my arms, not face up with my back bent over the rail.
The 'cut to the cause' solution for the Clipper incident is to stop all these paying guests poncing about playing at 1970s sailors on the foredeck and fit furling gear like the real racers.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
The elephant in the room that the report does not mention. There was no NEED to be at the bow. The wind was sustained in the 20s with higher gusts; not a big deal for modern gear.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
I'm just guessing, but I'm wondering how many people have actually been on bigger boats changing headsails to win races? Not many it seems......
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
I certainly have not (though I'm not unused to taking risks to achieve an objective), but I do find, in particular, the fact a 'clip' so evidently unsuitable for the task could be considered acceptable to anchor a safety line pretty damming.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
I would like to know, then, why they didn't fail continuously during the races on all the boats and dozens of other crew didn't fall in.
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
Assuming that you are not intentionally being facetious, I would suggest that they did not fail continuously because they were not continuously subject to the type of load under which they failed.
That does not change the fact they they are a single point of failure in an absolutely key piece of life saving equipment and were not just not up to the job, and (at least from my reading) it would appear that were known not to be in advance of this incident. Quite why the tiny side loads under which they were known to fail were not taken into account is beyond me.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Utterly clearly, it wasn't known or they wouldn't have been used. And it didn't happen before in what must have been many thousands of times in use.
Bunny. Old.
Bunny. Old.
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
It's bleeding obvious just looking at the thing and appears to have been dealt with prior to this incident in other comparable risk scenarios qv working at height.
"The instructions for the Spinlock tether acknowledge the numerous potential ways a tether can be misused, but the importance of the tether hook orientating itself to load the tether longitudinally, as identified following tests conducted by Spinlock shortly after the accident (section 1.6.1), was specified neither in ISO 12401 nor in Spinlock’s instructions."
They should have done those tests long before.
dom
Well-Known Member
That's incorrect, it's been well and widely known for some time and they were still used. Including the climbing world where the use of such equipment is forbidden.
Worse, suitable alternatives are widely available.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
It's called the Swiss Cheese effect, a whole lot of little things need to line up before the "thing" happens. The thing can be slight or serious injury, single or multiple deaths. It is the job of everybody to make sure the line of little things don't line up. On reading several MAIB reports Clipper are not doing enough to make the holes in the cheese smaller.
It would be interesting to see the differences on backup at port between the Volvo and Clipper races.
Making brushes from an old battery is brilliant but why carry the spares on one boat? It's not difficult or expensive to improve safety just needs a bit of thought - the crew are people looking for adventure not professional sailors.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Jeez it gets worse. Some of you seem to be thinking that Clipper deliberately let people use duff equipment? Bonkers. 
dom
Well-Known Member
Jeez it gets worse. Some of you seem to be thinking that Clipper deliberately let people use duff equipment? Bonkers.
Nobody has even insinuated 'deliberately'. Clipper's safety standards have nevertheless been demonstrated to be inadequate on multiple fronts, something confirmed by multiple MAIB reports.
Whether this emanates from a desire to cut costs, general sloppiness, poor management, or whatever is not within the MAIB's remit.
All we know for sure is that there's a problem, a big one, and that it increasingly appears to be organisational.
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capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Rubbish. It seems to be clear that a lot of people want to take a shot at an organisation that pushes the boundaries of normal life. If they were truly concerned they would do as I suggested ages ago and go talk to those involved, badger the management and make a positive contribution.
Better by far than vertue signalling on a yacht forum.
And there is nothing toothless about the MCA and its Enforcement Unit if there is a case to answer. I know this for fact.
Better by far than vertue signalling on a yacht forum.
And there is nothing toothless about the MCA and its Enforcement Unit if there is a case to answer. I know this for fact.
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flaming
Well-Known Member
Having read the whole report... I'm less inclined to use this report as a stick to beat Clipper with than the last one - the one with the boat that hit Africa.
Benny257
Active Member
A response from Clipper on the MAIB report.
https://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/news/article/clipper-ventures-statement-on-maib-report
I'm surprised by the tone of it. No sense of contrition and rather gives the impression of an organisation unwilling to listen, learn and progress but quick to apportion blame on others.
https://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/news/article/clipper-ventures-statement-on-maib-report
I'm surprised by the tone of it. No sense of contrition and rather gives the impression of an organisation unwilling to listen, learn and progress but quick to apportion blame on others.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Agree. Massively so. The Africa one had multiple catastrophic and systemic errors.
The casualty, crew and skipper all seem to have been competent here. The staggering weakness of the clips most of us still rely on is very worrying. No use saying these should not be allowed to tangle round other deck gear
penberth3
Well-Known Member
I see what you mean. They refer to "freak failure" of a clip when most people would call that a "reasonably foreseeable" failure.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
But it's not real racing, is it? It's a long distance pleasure trip with a veneer of racing to generate a little excitement. Real racers would not have (pace the report) crew members who were too unfit to move around the boats.