Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

dom said:
CV30 Grim but worth reading:

https://www.gov.uk/maib-reports/man...ign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate


Inadequate tether points, poor tethering procedure and deficient rough weather boat handling procedures are once again found wanting. In addition to previously broken stanchions.......

Same/similar problems to CV21 fatal MOB in April 2016, and the CV30 MOB in March 2014.
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Very sad, but you can't eliminate all risks on such a trip, the danger is part of sailing & what attracts the paying crew.
 
Another superbly written report on the incident. Several people have suggested that I apply to participate in the event. I keep directing them to the MAIB reports and they understand why I would never consider applying.

RIP Simon.
 
Thanks for sharing.

A very good report, with one glaring oversight (or I missed it or they failed to explain why it was not included).

The clip failed because it could not withstand a side load. The via ferrata carabiners used on other tethers, such as the Kong Tang, can withstand that sort of side loading. They are designed for it, because that is a normal via ferrata fall senario. The clip in question (Spinlock Race) can be bent out of shape with forces as low as 500-600 pounds. I've done it.

Yes, I agree there should be training on side loading. I have published magazine articles on that topic. Every climber is aware of that problem. But we should also recognize that in the heat of battle, s__t happens and safety gear must withstand that type of abuse.
 
Another sentence that struck me: "A MOB1 AIS beacon was also secured to the dan buoy and the arming tape was attached with twine to the gantry. When the dan buoy was thrown overboard the AIS beacon was intended to automatically activate as the arming tape was puiled.

During Simon Speirs MOB recovery although the dan buoy was thrown overboard there was no reception of the dan buoy's AIS beacon on CV 30's plotter..."
 
scotty123 said:
Very sad, but you can't eliminate all risks on such a trip, the danger is part of sailing & what attracts the paying crew.
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Hmm. I wonder how many crew they would attract is they explicitly offered inadequate tether points, poor tethering procedure and deficient rough weather boat handling procedures.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Hmm. I wonder how many crew they would attract is they explicitly offered inadequate tether points, poor tethering procedure and deficient rough weather boat handling procedures.
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They get plenty by pointing out its cold, wet, very tiring, liable to make you very seasick, expensive and has an element of hazard........
 
Sandy said:
Another superbly written report on the incident. Several people have suggested that I apply to participate in the event. I keep directing them to the MAIB reports and they understand why I would never consider applying.

RIP Simon.
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Have you ever been on any of the yachts or spoken to any of their trainers?

Do you never fly or drive anywhere after reading accident reports?

Just askin......
 
thinwater said:
Thanks for sharing.

A very good report, with one glaring oversight (or I missed it or they failed to explain why it was not included).

The clip failed because it could not withstand a side load. The via ferrata carabiners used on other tethers, such as the Kong Tang, can withstand that sort of side loading. They are designed for it, because that is a normal via ferrata fall senario. The clip in question (Spinlock Race) can be bent out of shape with forces as low as 500-600 pounds. I've done it...
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Indeed, you mentioned this before in an earlier discussion. I think the conclusion was that clips stamped out of sheet metal are "not fit for purpose".
 
capnsensible said:
Have you ever been on any of the yachts or spoken to any of their trainers?
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Major and persistent leaks, faulty bilge pumps, broken water maker, unserviceable generator, damaged steering - how many did you spot on board? You'll note that in the interests of fairness I have listed only the faults which could have been fixed before they set off and not all the things that went wrong on the trip.
 
capnsensible said:
Have you ever been on any of the yachts or spoken to any of their trainers?
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Can I reverse that question and ask, have you? I have been on the boats in question many times. Some of the drills one witnesses on the pontoon/boat-deck are cringe worthy and terrifying in equal measure. To make it worse the crews are hyped-up to the extent of comparing themselves with Hugo Boss and Mr T, also based in the same marina.

And the skippers speak of the sometimes impossible stress, overworked conditions, and state of under manning, against which they must somehow struggle against dog-tired, hungry, and cold. Clipper only reluctantly agreed to a professional mate when bounced into it by the MAIB. Asking novices to sail at 20kts+ downwind in big seas - latest boats are faster than previous generation - borders on recklessness and some of the accidents have been attributed to just that. By the MAIB that is.

In this case, not using furling sails is one thing, but not providing the attachment points, hardware and training for secure tethering is....

....well any word I can think of is deeply unacceptable on here.
 
dom said:
Can I reverse that question and ask, have you?

.
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Yes and yes. That's why I view a lot of what's said on these threads as a bunch of old bunny.

It's supposed to be hard.........

And yes I do know what it's like to race boats and I do know what it's like to sail across oceans. If anything I have a tinge of regret that I didn't ever combine the two but my over twenty year sailing career took me down other routes.

Next question? :)
 
capnsensible said:
Yes and yes. That's why I view a lot of what's said on these threads as a bunch of old bunny.

It's supposed to be hard.........

And yes I do know what it's like to race boats and I do know what it's like to sail across oceans. If anything I have a tinge of regret that I didn't ever combine the two but my over twenty year sailing career took me down other routes.

Next question? :)
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That's easy, which of the Clipper practices do you find sup par? Any?

Also tethering, the comments so far have been mostly lifted from the MAIB report, or in ThinWater's case scientific papers. Hardly old bunny :rolleyes:
 
dom said:
Clipper only reluctantly agreed to a professional mate when bounced into it by the MAIB.
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Yes indeed. I found this bit rather telling

In 2013, an agreement was reached between the MCA and Clipper Ventures stating that during the Race, wherever possible, Clipper Ventures should have suitably qualified persons on board as required by the SCV Code. However, the MCA’s letter to Clipper Ventures also stated:
‘The Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) agree that when a vessel owned and operated by Clipper Ventures PLC does not have a second qualified person onboard as required, that a second person must be onboard who has successfully completed the Clipper Coxwain’s Course, in addition to the fully qualified skipper...’​
Since the agreement was made, Clipper Ventures had never employed a second commercially endorsed qualified person during the Race, relying on Clipper coxswains to fulfil this role. ​

and this conclusion to it rather unsurprising

When the Clipper fleet arrived in Fremantle at the end of leg 3, the MCA revoked this agreement.​

scotty123 said:
Don't be so bloody stupid.
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A little robustly phrased, but I gather that you are agreeing with me.

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