Late July trip to CIs

[Jurgen]

Andy, am pretty sure you will have planned this in great detail.

We crossed for the first time last year and always were prepared to delay if the conditions were not good.

Radar, AIS and plotter are very useful bits of kit especially when combined with a well thought out passage plan which takes into account tides and weather around the planned departure.

Please ignore one of the previous comments regarding your ability to make the trip, in the right conditions it is 70 nm of water with the occasional large vessel, with the right electronics and common sence your first channel crossing should be a safe and enjoyable experience.

Cast off the bow lines and enjoy the trip.

 

[Sailfree]

with risk of fog etc I decided I needed a backup to my chartplotter in case electrics went down so bought an I pad and navionics app. note get I pad with satellite gps. 2 yrs ago it was the one with sim card version but did not need sim card fitted.

You are being sensible and asking advice. I realised that after 12yrs sailing and being lazy I had become totally reliant on chartplotter. Realised this while on an inshore passage S of Jersey on a black overcast night in July when it was cold and raining!! Could just make out blacker shapes either side of me indicated large rocks!! Even when experienced we can learn from others.

 

[Elessar]

You are not ready for this trip. If you were, you wouldn't be asking for people here to give you a checklist.
A bit more research perhaps for the sake of safety; perhaps even some help from a sea school.

Pillock.

 

[MinorSwing]

Pillock.

Something wrong with you if you think that advising someone to research more or train for the sake of safety should warrant that response.

 

[Andy Bav]

Andy, am pretty sure you will have planned this in great detail.

We crossed for the first time last year and always were prepared to delay if the conditions were not good.

Radar, AIS and plotter are very useful bits of kit especially when combined with a well thought out passage plan which takes into account tides and weather around the planned departure.

Please ignore one of the previous comments regarding your ability to make the trip, in the right conditions it is 70 nm of water with the occasional large vessel, with the right electronics and common sence your first channel crossing should be a safe and enjoyable experience.

Cast off the bow lines and enjoy the trip.

Cheers Andy,

You are right. 10 weeks to go and we are starting to look at passage plans now (!) ... and asking for some friendly advice. So I am grateful for all [positive] responses received. As you know, we did our own delivery trip of over 100nm so 70nm is not pushing any distance boundaries, but the hazards of the North / South trip are different to the East / West trip.

Eldest is planning it like a military operation and having built his own Marine GPS with tidal flow data from scratch for his Masters plus my own experience, we are confident we can go [when the time is right] with paper and electronic charts and return in one piece, but common theme of all responses is "proceed with common sense and caution" which has always been our philosophy anyway.

Let me know when you are around next - we are hoping to go to Brixfest over the BH weekend, just hope the weather holds ...

 

[Elessar]

Something wrong with you if you think that advising someone to research more or train for the sake of safety should warrant that response.

Err, just what was he doing when you started to preach? Pillock.

 

[MinorSwing]

Err, just what was he doing when you started to preach? Pillock.

Is he a member of your family perhaps? You seem to feel very strongly about it. Unfortunate that you have to be so rude, but that's the way the Internet works sometimes. PM me your address and let's meet up and have a chat about it.

 

[powerskipper]

We have decided that the CI's will be our big trip this year (late July) and are possibly cruising in company with another forum member but would be interested to hear if anyone is "going across" around that time.

Looking at tide times on our anticipated departure date we will need to set of around 06.00 ish when the day / water is usually calmer, but am drawing up a shopping list of additional items we think we will need, other than a weather window of course.

List is as below, but would be grateful for any tips, advice or additional items and whether you regard them as essential or nice to have. The boat will be serviced and antifouled 2 weeks before our planned trip so she should be in sound mechanical order and nice and slippery. We'll probably take a North Western approach from Dartmouth.

Radar - not installed yet
Radar reflector - we have AIS though ?
Passports
Q Flag
Handheld VHF in addition to fixed
Lifebuoy ?
Flares (?) - jurys out on this one though, but we do have a Coastal pack at present
Open mind as regards date of travel
Provisions / Alcohol
Luck

you might want to
Make sure you plot the trip on paper charts and keep a log, it helps if you mark on chart your position and time as you go along, means if fog hits or gps goes you know where you are, were.
Carry some form of manual fog horn,
You can log your trip with the coastguard on channel 67 and remember to check or update or do a CG66 form .
look at weather for a week before trip as strong winds can make the seas lumpy for 48hr or so after it has stopped blowing.
keep a good lookout for big ship in the traffic separation channels, your radar and AIS will help with this. Those buggers can move.
take a credit card or euros in case you have to divert to France.
its a good idea to carry a full service kit for boat and make sure you have some tools and the engine manuals on board.

BUT MOST OF ALL

enjoy it. the whole thing from planning to doing the trip.

 

[epervier]

Is he a member of your family perhaps? You seem to feel very strongly about it. Unfortunate that you have to be so rude, but that's the way the Internet works sometimes. PM me your address and let's meet up and have a chat about it.

Now play nicely boys

 

[Dill et Bound]

you might want to
Make sure you plot the trip on paper charts and keep a log, it helps if you mark on chart your position and time as you go along, means if fog hits or gps goes you know where you are, were.
Carry some form of manual fog horn,
You can log your trip with the coastguard on channel 67 and remember to check or update or do a CG66 form .
look at weather for a week before trip as strong winds can make the seas lumpy for 48hr or so after it has stopped blowing.
keep a good lookout for big ship in the traffic separation channels, your radar and AIS will help with this. Those buggers can move.
take a credit card or euros in case you have to divert to France.
its a good idea to carry a full service kit for boat and make sure you have some tools and the engine manuals on board.

BUT MOST OF ALL

enjoy it. the whole thing from planning to doing the trip.

Really good advice..
Especially the charts..
I was reminded today that when you switch on a chartplotter, when you accept terms and conditions, you are signing away any recompence to their accuracy..
I always use charts for navigation, I have never failed to make landfall yet..
I was out round Jethou last night, big spring, Very strong currents, Lovely evening..
Its only a couple of miles from my berth.
Still had my , East Guernsey Herm and Sark out on the table..
I do have 2 Garmins for back up Should I need them!!!...:encouragement:

 

[AuntyRinum]

Really good advice..
Especially the charts..
I was reminded today that when you switch on a chartplotter, when you accept terms and conditions, you are signing away any recompence to their accuracy..
I always use charts for navigation, I have never failed to make landfall yet..
I was out round Jethou last night, big spring, Very strong currents, Lovely evening..
Its only a couple of miles from my berth.
Still had my , East Guernsey Herm and Sark out on the table..
I do have 2 Garmins for back up Should I need them!!!...:encouragement:

Pleased you posted that. Good advice. I've been sailing in CI waters for over 40 years now and it is not a place for fools. That Elessar post is a shame. This is a public forum, and anything that encourages anyone to ignore basic safety is wrong.

 

[Elessar]

Pleased you posted that. Good advice. I've been sailing in CI waters for over 40 years now and it is not a place for fools. That Elessar post is a shame. This is a public forum, and anything that encourages anyone to ignore basic safety is wrong.

I didn't encourage anyone to ignore safety. On the contrary.
OP asked for advice. He got it. A Pillock had a go at him for wanting to go and not asking advice.
Op is getting his advice though from all the good people on here. I get fed up of the naysayers on here. All the OP wanted was advice and he got criticised for it. I just threw some mud back.

 

[Dill et Bound]

Sorry Andy.. Forgot to wish you... Good luck.. with all your preparations and planning...
As a local... I would be very happy to give you any tips to enhance your stay...
PM me if you require any assistance..
And as Powerskipper rightly says....
ENJOY..

 

[AuntyRinum]

I didn't encourage anyone to ignore safety. On the contrary.
OP asked for advice. He got it. A Pillock had a go at him for wanting to go and not asking advice.
Op is getting his advice though from all the good people on here. I get fed up of the naysayers on here. All the OP wanted was advice and he got criticised for it. I just threw some mud back.

Do you know anything about taking boats to the CI? Do you have anything to contribute to this thread, or do you just shout comments from the touchline?

 

[AuntyRinum]

I didn't encourage anyone to ignore safety. On the contrary.
OP asked for advice. He got it. A Pillock had a go at him for wanting to go and not asking advice.
Op is getting his advice though from all the good people on here. I get fed up of the naysayers on here. All the OP wanted was advice and he got criticised for it. I just threw some mud back.

Do you know anything about taking boats to the CI? Do you have anything to contribute to this thread, or do you just shout comments from the touchline?

 

[duncan]

We have decided that the CI's will be our big trip this year ...

Looking at tide times on our anticipated departure date we will need to set of around 06.00 ish when the day / water is usually calmer,

We'll probably take a North Western approach from Dartmouth.

Andy,

As I don't know the size of your boat I will also add to the previous comments re 'hard planning' - in my experience it can easily cause problems rather than avoid them! Whilst I'm only a relatively small boat (25' single engined open cockpit/hard top) most of the following will apply to some degree for most.

1. Laminate up reasonably large scale pages of the tidal atlas for the area - all 11 of them! Use china graph or equivalent pens to add the daily times to each page. These become you quick reference guides when on passage to 'what's round the corner' in terms of both time and 'corners'! By all means plan around these when you head off but you need fast easy to work with information when on passage. It's also important to have constant reminders that High and Low water are not slack water in the area - they are full bore times!
2. North West approach from Dartmouth doesn't make a lot of sense - ie obviously you are coming from the NW but your main decision will be whether to approach St PP from the N or S - whilst you can plan perfect for this it quickly becomes an excellent example of no 1 above in practice with the local wind and tidal conditions having the potential to influence the choice both early and late in the trip. Obviously you won't go near the Alderney Race, Swinge, Ortac and should keep well clear of the area to the W of the Casquettes in some tidal situations as well!
3. Have a clearly defined decision point, and preferably a local alternative - out of Poole I use a point 10 miles S of Durlston Head because experience tells me that I can accurately predict the sea conditions for the rest of the trip based on those at that point and I have Yarmouth, Weymouth and Cherbourg as alternates. The small angular difference in heading to Cherbourg rather than Braye, St PP is then straight on for me, can make the difference between a comfortable 18 knots and a really uncomfortable (abort) trip in some SW winds. Take the crews input on comfort etc but ultimately it's your call - if in doubt; delay. It's a pleasure trip not a survival exercise.
4. Whilst the almanac will have phone numbers and tidal information I have that copied, enlarged and laminated for each port as well - with any tidal restrictions converted to that days times (the ones shown on my watch!). Pre-programming any phone numbers is an obvious step too.
5. Be aware that St PP is pretty much closed for provisions on Sundays and Bank Holidays - you only get caught out once but it's best to avoid it happening at all! You should always be able to get some space at St PP, even on the busiest weekend of the year (1st one in August normally), but you might not get into the inner harbour. Equally the mooring bouys around Sark can be fully occupied just when you want one etc etc. Tender and OB very useful, as is good ground tackle (many smallish planning motorboats simply aren't equipped to anchor in more than a couple of the anchorages in that area.
6. That tool kit is as essential as ever!

If the above makes it out to be a scary dangerous environment then I'm sorry - that's not the intention. It is however an environment where even without the interference of the weather tidal conditions mean you have to have clear, accurate information available all the time to enable good decision making. I can go from Poole to Swanage and back without really having to make a single important decision the whole trip, but St PP to Sark for lunch may involve quite a few!

It can be idyllic - and is definitely worth the effort. It's also a trip that can benefit from cruising in company, if only with one other boat!

 

[Andy Bav]

Many thanks, again, for your advice, and I am extremely grateful for all your reminders as I appreciate that our experience and knowledge was not immediately apparent from my original post. I am also grateful for those who have PM'd me with recommendations esp regarding SPP.

The wind over tide situation is certainly something we can, and to a certain extent, live with on a relatively benign passage from Dartmouth to Torbay, but a massive part of the overall planning process when heading 35 - 40 miles offshore (at the furthest point), and will be obviously be part of our observations over the days before our planned departure and during our stay.

I hadn't thought of the hand held fog horn but to me that makes sense and the comment regarding throwing someone a canister containing 3 D batteries brought a smile to my face. Paper charts + plotter was our minimum, and when crossing Lyme Bay, we kept a log of various data every 30 minutes.

We have a 40ft twin engine motor cruiser and despite being less than a year old we do carry a full tool kit and a range of spares, fluids and filters that the forum was kind enough to advise me on when we took delivery.

As regards some the posts above, my original question was really aimed at those who have been there seen it and done it, rather than "I am not sure whether we should (or can) do this", and most responses were in the spirit of the former rather than the latter but as the OP I have not read or interpreted any comment to ignore safety advice (however blunt it may have been phrased).

As Powerskipper nicely put it, this is a trip to enjoy - and part of that is planning which is where we are now, and hopefully this thread will form a part of that....

Thanks again for all your contributions, concerns and advice.

 

[Elessar]

Do you know anything about taking boats to the CI? Do you have anything to contribute to this thread, or do you just shout comments from the touchline?

Plenty. But the advice was good and I had nothing to add.

 

[Dirtyrat]

You are not ready for this trip. If you were, you wouldn't be asking for people here to give you a checklist.
A bit more research perhaps for the sake of safety; perhaps even some help from a sea school.

I can't just click past this comment... The OP has asked for advice, and in my opinion is demonstrating that he IS a safe operator by doing so. The most skilful captains, never need demonstrate their superior handling skill, because of their prior planning. It is the people who don't ask for advice that are problematic. Good job! Keep asking the questions! Enjoy the trip!
(rant over)