Laser Flares

Ian_Edwards

Ian_Edwards

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I've been researching laser flares.

Several manufactures advertise that they meet SOLAS requirements and are awaiting IMO/SOLAS approval.

Does anyone have any insight as to when approval might be granted?

IMO/SOLAS seem to move at the pace of a geriatric snail, so I'm not holding my breath.

I'll need new flares next season, but don't like pyrotechnics, laser flares seem like they might be a viable alternative, I'd like to know if I can out them on my list for Santa.
 
"Several manufactures advertise that they meet SOLAS requirements and are awaiting IMO/SOLAS approval."

This is disingenuous I suspect - are there are any SOLAS requirements for laser flares? And yes, they would say they are awaiting approval, because they're trying to sell kit today and not in n years time, where n is an indeterminate number.

My view - a laser flare is not a recognised distress signal, and most people seeing it won't 999 the coastguard. It also has a poor visibility horizon compared to a para flare.

If you really don't want pyros, then go for an EPIRB and a girt big torch that you can shine towards rescue craft that have been tasked to you.
 
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You might not like pyrotechnics but they do the job. I was passing Portland Bill not long ago and could see the Navy doing a live firing exercise in the distance. Just before they fired off their last burst they sent up a white flare. Less than three minutes later the Coastguard was calling on the VHF to them saying they'd received a 999 call about the flare and could they confirm it was them.

I suspect all people would think upon seeing a laser flare is 'that port nav light is very bright.'
 
I'm aware of the pro's and con's of laser flares, but as discussed on this forum many times, pyrotechnics are expensive, difficult to get rid of when time expired and perhaps dangerous when used in anger, although I guess we'd all accept that element of danger, if we thought that the flare might bring about a rescue.

The MCA won't carry in date flares in their vehicles, which says something about what officialdom thinks about the safety of pyrotechnics.

Eynhallow is 14m long so over the 13.7m limit where it is a legal requirement to have in date flares on-board. I was searching for a SOLAS approved alternative. Technology moves on all the time, so I think it's worth looking and asking the question.

We have a DSC radio linked to a GPS, a float free EPIRB, several PLB's which we use when appropriate and a life raft with a hydro-static release. So I guess I'm looking for what the RYA calls the final mile, something visual for the rescue craft to home in on.

I'd still be interested to know if Laser Flares are on the IMO/SOLAS radar, or as many suspect, it's a technology push from the manufactures.

I've tried searching the IMO site and can't find any reference to Laser Flares.
 
You won't find any mention on the IMO site for a long time yet IMHO. This because the lasers fill only part of the spectrum covered by pyrotechnics: the point source one at night or poor visibility. The other elements - attracting attention over a wide area (parachute flare, up to 25 miles under ideal circumstances) and point source by day(smokes) are not covered by the laser apparatus currently available. So, it is possible that the IMO may at some stage agree to recognise laser apparatus as replacing the hand held red flare but there will still be a SOLAS requirement for pyrotechnics to meet the other two elements. Therefore why bother to go down the route at all when theres a perfectly viable solution already in place?

To my mind, laser apparatus may form a nice to have additional signalling method but having used flares in, so to speak, anger they take a lot of beating.
 
Woodlouse said:
I suspect all people would think upon seeing a laser flare is 'that port nav light is very bright.'
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When I see them I think 'irresponsible yob trying to blind people'; some moron shone one at us on the approach to Vibo Valentia this summer, while its ability to light up the sails was impressive destroying everyone's night vision was something we could have done without.
 
Woodlouse said:
That says more about their health and safety department rather than the safety of the flares.
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Or the legal requirements for transport and storage at their bases for [whichever class of] explosives they are classified under for road transport and storage. And the training required due to the CG staff being employed at the time.

PW
 
Which ever way you look at flares, be it health and safety or transport regulations, if flares aren't safe to be transported and MCA staff aren't trained to handle flares, why are they considered safe on yachts? Yachts are a form of transport and very few of us have had training to carry flares.

To me this is just inconsistent and a "can of worms", it's the same set of explosives, which by law I'm required to carry (the boat is over 13.7m long). But the MCA won't go near them and they are subject to special regulation when transported by a courier.

Rant over, but in reality it's not high on anyone's agenda and having carried flares without incident for much longer than I care to remember, I guess that I just keep on looking for a decent new technology which will make flares redundant.
 
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The RYA have modified their stance and seem to be agreeing that flares will/should become redundant, given that GMDSS covers the long range requirements much better than one shot pyrotechnics.
 
Ian_Edwards said:
The MCA won't carry in date flares in their vehicles, which says something about what officialdom thinks about the safety of pyrotechnics.
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Would there be any reason why the MCA would need to carry flares in their vehicles?
Ian_Edwards said:
So I guess I'm looking for what the RYA calls the final mile, something visual for the rescue craft to home in on.
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White flare by day orange smoke by night. Aircraft pilots get just a tad upset with green lasers buzzing the aircraft.

Some time ago I was a member of a Mountain Rescue Team and excercised with 22 Sqn RAF, they were more than happy with a white at night when you first saw the aircraft; that way the pilot gets a fix on you and you don't kill his night vision.
 
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I'd be very wary of buying a laser flare at the moment, purely because there are no established standards for them. Pyrotechnic flares are subject to well-established standards; a flare from one manufacturere will perform just as well and with the same light/smoke characteristics as one from another. Laser flares from one manufacturer may well have different chracteristics to those from another, so how are you expected to know that this bright monochromatic light is a distress signal, and not a mis-pointed laser pointer, or someone messing around, or even a distant laser-show? There is, of course, the concern that pilots tend to react against the use of lasers - understandable given that there have been serious incidents caused by stupid or malicious people blinding pilots by shining lasers at aircraft.

All that said, I'd certainly be interested in carrying a laser-flare as a backup!
 
I don't think laser flares will ever be on the radar as they are an optical device.

If you want to something on the radar then what you need is a SART.

Ian_Edwards said:
I'm aware of the pro's and con's of laser flares, but as discussed on this forum many times, pyrotechnics are expensive, difficult to get rid of when time expired and perhaps dangerous when used in anger, although I guess we'd all accept that element of danger, if we thought that the flare might bring about a rescue.

The MCA won't carry in date flares in their vehicles, which says something about what officialdom thinks about the safety of pyrotechnics.

Eynhallow is 14m long so over the 13.7m limit where it is a legal requirement to have in date flares on-board. I was searching for a SOLAS approved alternative. Technology moves on all the time, so I think it's worth looking and asking the question.

We have a DSC radio linked to a GPS, a float free EPIRB, several PLB's which we use when appropriate and a life raft with a hydro-static release. So I guess I'm looking for what the RYA calls the final mile, something visual for the rescue craft to home in on.

I'd still be interested to know if Laser Flares are on the IMO/SOLAS radar, or as many suspect, it's a technology push from the manufactures.

I've tried searching the IMO site and can't find any reference to Laser Flares.
Click to expand...
 
Ian_Edwards said:
...........The MCA won't carry in date flares in their vehicles, which says something about what officialdom thinks about the safety of pyrotechnics............
Click to expand...
Not so when I was a CG (up to a few months ago). In-date white paraflares and orange smokes were issued and carried if the local team's circumstances justified it.
What they are not allowed to do is carry out-of-date pyros unless recovering them from the foreshore, in which circumstances faintly ludicrous safety measures have to be performed in order to transport the things to the nearest MRCC, taking the truck away from the team's area for potentially long periods. IIRC I had to have 4 hours training to be able to even touch an OOD flare, somewhat ironic when I have a container of them on my boat...:o
 
I couldn't possibly bore you with the detail, and anyway most of it went in one ear and out of the other.
Frankly I made up my mind that if I was called out to a flare found on the beach, I would quietly dig a very deep hole and bury it, much less trouble. But my plan was never tested.
 
That's interesting, when I phone MCA a couple of month ago, I was told that the shore teams had stopped carrying flares. so I wounder what the story really is, perhaps they are not replacing them when they become time expired?

But the thread is drifting (as they do) the objective of my original past was to see if there was anyone out there who had some insight into what the IMO/SOLAS were doing or thinking about doing when it comes to approving (or not) the use of Laser Flares as a distress signal.

I haven't seen any responses which really address this issue. The general feeling is that they are doing very little and it look more like a technology push from the developers.

I for one don't like flares and would like to see a safer alternative, but if your boat is coded or over 13.7m you don't have an option, you are legally bound to carry flares.
 
They tried to take em all away several years ago, but all the teams howled - white paras are excellent for assisting with searching at night e.g.a remote marsh area, and are instantly available to the team and a lot cheaper and quicker than waiting for a helo equipped with FLIR. So some teams had them issued again. Still the case as of last May when I left.
 
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