Laser flare width ?

A flashing light is recognized as a distress signal, but it is also used to mark obstructions (incorrectly) and fishing nets/traps. So as a coastal signal it's use is limited. In principle the frequency (60 hz) should identify it, but in practice that is common. Because of local use, I'm "trained" to ignore fixed period strobes. ...---..., in alternating colors, stands out (see USCG .

Google "RTCM Standard 13200.0". It's not well enough known, but it is accepted in the US and Canada. The UK is probably looking at it.

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Lasers and elelctronic visual signaling devices (electronic flares) are two separate conversations, not closely related.
 
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capnsensible said:
SAR pilot knowledge v random guys on Internet.

Hmm, now what do I do? :rolleyes:
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Thats exactly my point. Boomerang pops up here on every thread about "Laser Flares" proclaiming that he's a former SAR pilot and we should all listen to him, these things are bad. It would be like someone declaring we shouldn't use sat nav's in our cars because they make people drive on railway lines and we should trust him because he is a retired traffic cop and he's seen the consequences.
 
ylop said:
Thats exactly my point. Boomerang pops up here on every thread about "Laser Flares" proclaiming that he's a former SAR pilot and we should all listen to him, these things are bad. It would be like someone declaring we shouldn't use sat nav's in our cars because they make people drive on railway lines and we should trust him because he is a retired traffic cop and he's seen the consequences.
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Nice try. But for me, fail.
 
thinwater said:
A flashing light is recognized as a distress signal, but it is also used to mark obstructions (incorrectly) and fishing nets/traps. So as a coastal signal it's use is limited. In principle the frequency (60 hz) should identify it, but in practice that is common. Because of local use, I'm "trained" to ignore fixed period strobes. ...---..., in alternating colors, stands out (see USCG .

Google "RTCM Standard 13200.0". It's not well enough known, but it is accepted in the US and Canada. The UK is probably looking at it.

---

Lasers and elelctronic visual signaling devices (electronic flares) are two separate conversations, not closely related.
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A flashing light is recognised as a distress signal???? Er, don't think so.
 
capnsensible said:
A flashing light is recognised as a distress signal???? Er, don't think so.
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US Coast Guard and Transport Canada recognize 60 hz strobe as a distress signal. In fact, COLREGS expressly prohibits strobes for any vessel marking use.

International preferred to be ... - - - ... frequency not stated. However, SOLAS danbuoy and PFD lights are 60 hz strobes.

If you are hung up on the difference between flashing and strobe, which is important, I should have been more specific. The point I was making is that the SOS pattern makes a big difference in conspicuousness and identification.
 
I have to careful what I say as there is knowledge which is not mine to share, nor do I want to get into a debate as to what policy and capability of SAR should or should not be, nor recommend any particular product or type of product. I have expressed my own feelings and personal choices in other threads.

All I am doing is sharing information that is already in the public domain which I have been made aware through my experience. I do not mean to achieve anything other than highlight that information to those who I hope will never need it in anger but have to consider as a skipper. There are two separate issues and I don’t confuse LED and laser although my grammar might lead you to believe otherwise. One: red LEDs are not easily seen by NVIS and two: lasers are a potential flight safety hazard. These are entirely specific to the extremely unlikely event where a leisure seafarer needs rescuing at night by helicopter, so a very specific scenario. They may or may not have any detrimental effect on being rescued by another vessel.

You can draw whatever conclusion you want from that information. My conclusion is that looking at what companies are marketing at the moment, laser flares seem to be less favoured and LED flare makers seem to be evolving to the known issue.

At the end of the day we as leisure skippers get to choose what safety equipment we carry. Entrepreneurs are free to market safety equipment that they perceive to serve the market. No one is supervising what we carry or what is marketed to us. We have to decide what we want and whether what we are being offered is suitable for our needs and expectations. Various organisations offer advice perhaps even stipulate minimum equipment for racing or rallies, but ultimately we have to ask ourselves whether we need to go beyond that recommendation based on our own knowledge and experience. No one has all the answers.

I suppose what we are seeing now in terms of new generation EVDS will ultimately drive new regulation and standards. The same should be true from the other end - the new generation in detection equipment should drive new standards as well. But that tends to be evolve within the military and governments and manufacturers get a bit touchy sharing that sort of stuff.

Oh well. I’ve offered my thoughts, I’m off to polish my heliograph ?
 
thinwater said:
US Coast Guard and Transport Canada recognize 60 hz strobe as a distress signal. In fact, COLREGS expressly prohibits strobes for any vessel marking use.

International preferred to be ... - - - ... frequency not stated. However, SOLAS danbuoy and PFD lights are 60 hz strobes.

If you are hung up on the difference between flashing and strobe, which is important, I should have been more specific. The point I was making is that the SOS pattern makes a big difference in conspicuousness and identification.
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60hz? or one flash per second- 1Hz- as fitted to my SOLAS lifejackets and lifebelts
 
A strobe is a position indicator. Red and orange are the distress colours.

A flashing sequence of S O S is recognised as a distress signal. But that's not a strobe.

See SOLAS Life Saving Signals Table.

flg0060_1.jpg
 
The International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) is an international maritime treaty that sets minimum safety standards in the construction, equipment and operation of merchant ships. The International Maritime Organization convention requires signatory flag states to ensure that ships flagged by them comply with at least these standards.
SOLAS Convention
The current version of SOLAS is the 1974 version, known as SOLAS 1974, which came into force on 25 May 1980.[1] As of April 2022, SOLAS 1974 has 167 contracting states,[1] which flag about 99% of merchant ships around the world in terms of gross tonnage.[1]
SOLAS in its successive forms is generally regarded as the most important of all international treaties concerning the safety of merchant ships.[2][3]
 
capnsensible said:
A strobe is a position indicator. Red and orange are the distress colours.

A flashing sequence of S O S is recognised as a distress signal. But that's not a strobe.

See SOLAS Life Saving Signals Table.

View attachment 150117
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Let's not be pedantic.
  • SOLAS is not the only standard. Strobes are on the USCG and TC lists, and I am in North America. Perhaps other countries, I didn't check.
  • Every chandlery sells strobes described as for distress.
QED, the average sailor sees strobes on some list and sees them sold for "distress," therefore they recognize a 1 hz strobe as a distress signal. Maybe it is just a MOB in the water, not a boat. I'm still thinking that means distress. And obviously I agree that a strobe has obvious shortcomings as a distress signal ... which is obviously why I brought it up. Yes, I know the rules.

Jeez.
 
thinwater said:
Unless I am mistaken (please post a link to the spec if I am wrong) there is currently no SOLAS spec for eVDSD, so that is a misleading statement from a bureaucratic agency. Not a surprise.

I'm sure they will catch up. :) They could call Transport Canada.
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Not sure why you think it’s misleading? The MCA are saying known EVDS don’t meet any current specification laid down in SOLAS. It doesn’t matter if there a specific specification for EVDS or not.
 
Spirit (of Glenans) said:
Wouldn't a piece of thick-walled tube, of appropriate dimensions, make a useful device from which to fire pyrotechnic flares, and do away with all this boring discussion?
(Puts on tin hat and awaits incoming ?)
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