Knots or not knots?

[peterb]

Make a simple slipknot. Pass the loose end of the rope through the eye, then pull the slipknot through as if you were going to remove the knot. The eye pulls the loose end through with it and a bowline results. (There are two ways to tie the slipknot - you need to do it so that pulling the loose end of the rope will tighten it)

It's a funny thing. I'm sure that you're talking about the same method as I use, but yet I don't recognise your description. Here's my method:

First, you can use the method on virtually any size rope, so take the diameter of the rope as one length unit. Make a small loop (about four units across) in the rope . Bend the standing part round and tuck it through the loop to make a second loop. Notice that the second loop stands up at a right angle to the rope. Pull the second loop through to make that about four units across as well. (A)

Take the working end and tuck it through the second loop from the direction of the standing part. Pull through about 10-15 units of rope. Hold the working part in one hand well above the knot, put the fingers of the other hand loosely round the working part just above the knot and slide them down to capsize the knot into a bowline.

As Snow Leopard has said, the clever bit is the bit leading up to (A). At that point the knot is virtually tied, you are standing there with the second loop ready to be threaded. Pass the working end round whatever it is that you are tying the knot round, drop it through the loop, slide your hand down to capsize the knot. Knot tied in two seconds (if you're slow!).

I learnt about the free drink part when we pulled into Zeebrugge one night, after a tiring passage. We found a berth alongside a 70ft Dutch ketch. I was just tying a bowline in the end of a warp, ready to hand across, when the person I was handing it to said "I can tie that knot much faster than that!" "OK" said I, "When we've finished we'll have a race."

Duly finished we each got a rope, and prepared to tie a loop round the guardrail. We had a 1, 2, 3, Go! from the other boat, and my end was round, through and capsized in less than a second. Then I had to show them how. That's what earned the drink. I've seen the same ketch several times since, and we've had a good night every time.

One minor point, though. When I first tied the bowline, my Dutch friends didn't accept it. They said that the tail (which in my case came out in the middle of the knot) should have emerged on the outside. Difference between the British and the Dutch navies. So I repeated the knot, except that at (A) I passed the end through the small loop from the direction of the bight, instead of from the standing part. Lo and behold! a Dutch bowline. That got me a second glass of old genever.

 

[snowleopard]

Amazingly difficult to describe tying a knot in words but yes, we are talking about the same technique.

 

[snowleopard]

Now have a look at the Flying Bowline
I have to master that one.

 

[peterb]

Now have a look at the Flying Bowline
I have to master that one.

Interesting. But I don't think that that is just a different method; it's a different knot. If you run the video up to just before the end then pause it, look at the lie of the tail. It's coming out at a right angle to the rope, instead of parallel to it as ain a normal (outside or inside) bowline. Have a careful look, then see if you can duplicate the knot.

 

[puddock]

Now have a look at the Flying Bowline
I have to master that one.

Oh thanks a lot !
I am now stuck in a hotel room, looking through YouTube knots and desperately trying to locate some rope/string........ I don't really want to ask the receptionist if she knows where I can get some rope to take to my room.

 

[peterb]

desperately trying to locate some rope/string

Shouldn't be a problem. Always carry a piece with you to practice your knots. A substitute for worry beads.

 

[Bosunof]

I get upset when peeps do not use the knots that are historically found to be right for the task. If you can't tie a bowline then I cant use you for mooring or tying up alongside.

If you can tie it at night then you can crew with me.

And you are all correct in that the simple list of eight are all essential. Not only that but when used you dont lose fenders overboard and can adjust them if in the wrong place or at the wrong height, easily. In addition all can be untied even when under load.

They look good and when used appropriately can cause applause and good comments. Who could ask for more?

 

[starfire]

Now try my variation.

form a double loop, as though you are tying a 'drop over' clove hitch, tie the rest as before, then collapse it, the extra loop stops the tail of a bowline flogging loose.

 

[Ubergeekian]

And you are all correct in that the simple list of eight are all essential.

I have serious doubts about the inclusion of the reef knot. It may have its uses, but they are far fewer than most people think and it's propensity to untie itself can make using it a serious or even fatal mistake.

 

[snowleopard]

No way can a bowline be untied under load.

 

[exfinnsailor]

Knots

Agree .. You will never undo it under load .. Round turn and a couple of half hitches would do nicely though ..

 

[peterb]

No way can a bowline be untied under load.

But equally, once the load is off I've never known a bowline to jam. I've seen knots that look like bowlines jam horribly, but on investigation they've always been wrongly tied.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I used reef knots last Saturday to tie up my reef points when reefing.

That's the only thing I ever use it for too.

 

[Litotes]

I used reef knots last Saturday to tie up my reef points when reefing.

The nice part about reef knots used for their proper purpose is their capsizability. Work along the sail with a quick tug on the upper working end of each knot and the whole thing falls away like magic. Right for reefing and for shaking out a reef. That, of course, is also what makes them unsuitable for pretty much any other purpose (apart, perhaps, for tying off the ends of whipping twine in the centre of the rope etc.)

A knot that is not on the standard list, but is, nonethless, rather useful in some circumstances, is the climber's "alpine butterfly knot" (for making a fixed loop in the middle of a line)

 

[pteron]

If you can't tie a bowline then I cant use you for mooring or tying up alongside.

I can tie a bowline in several ways, but last week was introduced to the 'round turn and two half hitches' school of tying alongside. It has merit, not least of which is the ease of untying whilst under load.

 

[snowleopard]

I used reef knots last Saturday to tie up my reef points when reefing.

I always use a shoelace bow for tying reef points (of course that is a reef knot of sorts but much easier to undo and, perversely, it seems less liable to capsize and untie itself).

 

[gandy]

I can tie a bowline in several ways, but last week was introduced to the 'round turn and two half hitches' school of tying alongside. It has merit, not least of which is the ease of untying whilst under load.

Also less likely to chafe the line if the boat's moving around.