Key questions to ask when buying a used boat

[bdh198]

I suspect this question has been asked a hundred times before on forums like this, but it's always useful to get as many points of view as possible so I would be extremely grateful for any suggestions people might have.

It concerns a friend of mine who is new to boat ownership and is looking for a 27-32 footer for day sailing and coastal port-hopping for himself, wife and two young children. He's not too worried about where the boat is bought from as he has plenty of crew who can help him sail it to his preferred cruising ground. However, buying a boat in another country hundreds of miles away means opportunities to view the boat are limited and planning trips to view a boat need to be limited to those that are real contenders for purchase.

His question is what should be the key things he should be asking for information on regarding the boat's condition etc, and is there anything he should specifically be asking a marine surveyor about?

His price bracket is up to about £15,000, so he knows boats in this price range are going to be 30+ years old. He is not worried about doing some general re-furb, but is concerned there are simple questions he should be asking to avoid making an expensive mistake.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

 

[l'escargot]

I wouldn't see any need to buy a boat in that category hundreds of miles away or in another country, the chances are there will be a suitable boat within a daysail - if he's in the Solent area like you, half a day. Have a look at brokerage sites such as Boatshed to narrow down the type of boat preferred and then get looking. Primarily on boats that age you want to know what's been replaced and what's original - original gear will be getting tired and you need to identify what may need replacing in the short to medium term of ownership. Engines, rigging and sails are the first concern as they require significant outlay in relation to the value of the boat.

 

[Wansworth]

Establish where the boat will be kept, type of keel etc.In older boats areas like keel to hull joints, rudder assemblies and the engine if original.

 

[Tranona]

Suggest your friend buys on of the buying secondhand boats such as that published by the RYA as it will have lots of useful information and check lists.

In that size/budget there is just such an enormous choice, but many of the boats will need work - that is often the reason why they are for sale as the present owners can't face the costs of replacements etc. So condition will vary hugely and often you only find out when you actually view the boat, so it makes sense to keep your search local so that you can see lots of boats to get an idea of what is available for the money.

 

[TQA]

I can recommend Don Casey's book on Sailboat Maintenance which covers being your own surveyor. Take a camera, a mirror, a torch and use a checklist.

If you do employ a professional surveyor be aware that most do not fully inspect the mast and rigging. Their wording on the engine will often be on the lines the engine 'appears' to run well.

Brokers usually answer truthfully if asked direct questions, owner/sellers not always.

I always remember driving several hundred miles to look at a boat on a trailer. I specifically quizzed the seller in detail about the condition of the trailer as I had bought the money with me and would have towed it home. Described as perfect and ready to go; when I arrived I found 4 flat and rotted tires, the hitch missing and the trailer so rotten with rust the keel had broken through the U channel.

Be aware.

 

[Searush]

Asking questions doesn't help much if the seller chooses to tell you what you want to hear, does it? You need to use your own eyes, hands, ears & brain - and your feet to walk away if the results don't suit.

 

[theoldsalt]

.............Brokers usually answer truthfully if asked direct questions.........................

In my experience this is rarely true. I have travelled hundreds of mile and spent much money to view boats that brokers have assurred me are in excellent condition and well maintained. Information that was blatantly untrue and obvious within five minutes of seeing the boats.

Finding a potential buy near home certainly saves a lot of wasted time and cost. For some reason brokers seem to think that getting you to view is more important than truth and increases the chance of a sale which it doesn't. It just puts you off brokers.

I find private sellers more truthful as a failed viewing wastes their precious time.

 

[oldgit]

Unfortunately there is no way way around this conundrum.
You have to go and look for yourself.
A sheer case of persistence and patience.

OGs not to be taken too seriously guide..............................
The further away the less the boat will resemble the description. NYB take note.
Until you are totally disillusioned and fed up and on the verge of spending the money on something else you have not seen enough boats.
If you look at 20 boats only two will be right and one of those the owner will know is good boat and refuse to accept your paltry offer.
By looking at so many boats you will be able to recognise a goodun and not walk away thinking there is a better one round the corner.

 

[superheat6k]

Agree with Oldgit that the condition of a boat is inversely proportional to the distance you have to travel to view it.

I have had major rows with Brokers who's ability to accurately describe a boat is, shall we say, lacking.

Insist on seeing plenty of photos - Boatshed are undoubtedly the best for this, then ask the obvious questions, and specifically ask the broker or seller 'what defects are there' and write down their response. A Broker is legally obliged to tell you of any he is aware of, so also is an owner, but proving his knowledge would later be difficult. If you make an offer, subject to survey, any pre-disclosed problems are assumed taken into account. Any that are not give you space to either re-negotiate the price or simply walk away, for those later revealed.

Where a Broker / Owner is being so obscure about not revealing the truth then don't walk away - RUN. But you will have wasted days, so make sure you find a good pub and take in the other boats nearby - my last and current boats have been 'consolation' finds.

On the subject of boat type bilge keelers are slower, and not really for racing, but are family friendly as you can park them on many beaches for days of fun. Our first boat was a 22' triple keel that allowed us to sail in a puddle and way beyond the reach of any fin keeler. Beach and Hard overnight moorings are often free, and right next to the best pub.

Now with twin shafts being the lowest point on my stinkpot I can't go anywhere near the beach, and this is one aspect of my boating today that I do miss.

Goods hunting.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The key question for me - and it applies to cars as much as boats - is "Why are you selling?"

 

[NormanS]

Unless you are chasing after a particular model /class of boat, there is surely no need to buy a boat hundreds of miles away in another country. Unless of course your friend is in the country hundreds of miles away, and there are no boats there.

 

[oldgit]

The key question for me - and it applies to cars as much as boats - is "Why are you selling?"

Every reason under the sun......except the real one

 

[JumbleDuck]

Every reason under the sun......except the real one

Well yes - getting the real answer is the hard bit. But then, that applies to any question, and if I could get just one straight answer it would always be the reason for selling.

 

[Searush]

Every reason under the sun......except the real one

Which is back to what I said in post 6. To some extent it is like buying a car, how much do you trust the seller?

 

[BrianH]

He's not too worried about where the boat is bought from as he has plenty of crew who can help him sail it to his preferred cruising ground. However, buying a boat in another country hundreds of miles away means opportunities to view the boat are limited and planning trips to view a boat need to be limited to those that are real contenders for purchase.

Buying an older boat in another country hundreds of miles away and sailing to his preferred cruising ground is tempting providence. I almost made this mistake buying in Holland and thinking a year in getting her to the Med might be a good idea. I'm very glad I didn't when I later found what needed renewing that a survey hadn't revealed.

 

[mawm]

Think about what costs a lot to replace in an ageing boat. Old engines cost a lot to be replaced and a painted hull will need a repaint and if done professionally will cost a lot - probably more than the boat is worth, while new sails and new rigging are less expensive, an osmosis repair is a rip-off and rewiring can be done by the owner, etc. etc. Also make sure that the boat can be sailed to your home port in its present condition i.e. is it seaworthy?