Ketch ensign Etiquette

[ferroboat]

I love wearing the My ensign streaming from the top of my Ketch's Mizzan When sailing.
What about extended days when on board in a marina, is it normal practice to drop it down to the flagstaff on the stern?


https://moonshineofmersea.wordpress.com/

 

[Goldie]

FWIW, mine stays at the head of the mizzen mast. A flagstaff wouldn't work for me (ensign would foul the self-steering gear) but if you want to lower it, how about wearing it from the end of the mizzen boom with a good weight at the bottom?

 

[VicS]

I love wearing the My ensign streaming from the top of my Ketch's Mizzan When sailing.
What about extended days when on board in a marina, is it normal practice to drop it down to the flagstaff on the stern?


https://moonshineofmersea.wordpress.com/

The flagstaff at the stern is the preferred position to wear the ensign anyway. Other positions such as the top of the mizzen mast, peak of a gaff etc are merely acceptable alternatives when it is not possible to use a staff on the stern.

There is a lengthy section on flag etiquette on the RYA website, although it may only be accessible to members.

The ignorant, the heathens and the plain argumentative will be along shortly to tell you that you can wear/fly it from wherever you fancy.

 

[prv]

The flagstaff at the stern is the preferred position to wear the ensign anyway. Other positions such as the top of the mizzen mast, peak of a gaff etc are merely acceptable alternatives when it is not possible to use a staff on the stern.

On Stavros we used to fly a large "harbour ensign" from a staff on the taffrail when in port and on coastal hops. For longer passages we would stow it and hoist a smaller "sea ensign" from the spanker gaff. I understood this to be correct procedure for sailing ships.

On Kindred Spirit a staff at the stern wasn't practical due to the deck-sweeping mizzen boom. Under way we used the mizzen gaff, in port in the UK we didn't show an ensign at all. Moored in France, I would hoist it to the mizzen masthead, but didn't really like the look.

Pete

 

[johnalison]

In old marine paintings, the national ensign was always at the mizzen masthead as far as I remember. I should have thought that yacht procedure would have generally followed this. As long as the ensign looks well placed on the vessel, I am happy to admire it. The only common failing is to tie the ensign to the backstay and although I know some perfectly nice people who do this, I still can't admire it.

 

[prv]

The only common failing is to tie the ensign to the backstay and although I know some perfectly nice people who do this, I still can't admire it.

Do you literally mean tying it (presumably in reach of the deck) or would your distaste extend to a halyard hoisting it about a third of the way up?

I do the latter on Ariam, since the original staff in its welded socket on the stern rail tends to wrap the ensign around the dinghy outboard.

I wouldn't necessarily advocate it as pedantically correct, but it's practical and looks all right to me.

Glad I can still qualify as a perfectly nice person either way

Pete

 

[joha]

You do realise of course, that if the top of your mizzen is higher than your starboard crosstree and you are flying a courtesy flag you are sailing your vessel as a prize of that nationality

J

 

[jac]

You do realise of course, that if the top of your mizzen is higher than your starboard crosstree and you are flying a courtesy flag you are sailing your vessel as a prize of that nationality

J

Damn French

 

[johnalison]

Do you literally mean tying it (presumably in reach of the deck) or would your distaste extend to a halyard hoisting it about a third of the way up?

I do the latter on Ariam, since the original staff in its welded socket on the stern rail tends to wrap the ensign around the dinghy outboard.

I wouldn't necessarily advocate it as pedantically correct, but it's practical and looks all right to me.

Glad I can still qualify as a perfectly nice person either way

Pete

I'm afraid I do. Usually the ensign droops and looks morose or like a tea towel being dried. It only shows itself when the wind is blowing from astern. An ensign on an angled jackstaff dangling close to the water can look positively romantic on a quiet evening in harbour.

 

[Tranona]

An ensign on an angled jackstaff dangling close to the water can look positively romantic on a quiet evening in harbour.

However the current purpose of an ensign is not to look romantic, but to identify the nationality of the ship. Wearing it on a staff at the stern means that it is clearly visible to others, although when this is impractical a prominent location close to the stern is an acceptable alternative.

 

[FWB]

An ensign on an angled jackstaff dangling close to the water can look positively romantic on a quiet evening in harbour.

 

[KellysEye]

>>FWIW, mine stays at the head of the mizzen mast. A flagstaff wouldn't work for me (ensign would foul the self-steering gear)

We used a flagstaff in port because we also had self-steering gear but when sailing we tied a small ensign to the mizzen boom up haul, which is another option. But I guess there aren't many ketches around now which is a shame they have a much more flexible sail plan plus you can fly a mizzen stay sail in front of the mast for reaching as seen in your picture - looks good.

 

[Hydrozoan]

... An ensign on an angled jackstaff dangling close to the water can look positively romantic on a quiet evening in harbour.

Thank you! Somebody (else!) bumped our holder so the jackstaff is now angled somewhat athwartships, as well as fore and aft. I was wondering about straightening it, but shall henceforth simply view it as extra-specially romantic.

 

[chubby]

On Stavros we used to fly a large "harbour ensign" from a staff on the taffrail when in port and on coastal hops. For longer passages we would stow it and hoist a smaller "sea ensign" from the spanker gaff. I understood this to be correct procedure for sailing ships.

On Kindred Spirit a staff at the stern wasn't practical due to the deck-sweeping mizzen boom. Under way we used the mizzen gaff, in port in the UK we didn't show an ensign at all. Moored in France, I would hoist it to the mizzen masthead, but didn't really like the look.

Pete

Does this count as a harbour ensign or just showing off!

 

[prv]

Does this count as a harbour ensign or just showing off!

Both

Don't think much of their sail stowing, though

Pete

 

[Woodlouse]

The flagstaff at the stern is the preferred position to wear the ensign anyway. Other positions such as the top of the mizzen mast, peak of a gaff etc are merely acceptable alternatives when it is not possible to use a staff on the stern.

The RN would disagree with you there. They fly the ensign from the taffrail when in port but when at sea they take that down and hoist one at the peak. No doubt a convention that started because of low flying mizzen booms making the taffrail untenable for a flag staff it still changed the 'rules' and as a result all ships are built with a mast of sorts with a small peak off the back for flying the ensign when at sea.

The 'correct' place to fly your ensign on a sailing boat when at sea is from the peak on a gaffer, from the mizzen head on a ketch or yawl or from a point 2/3rds up the leech on a bermudan boat (but who ever saw that done?)

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

On Stavros we used to fly a large "harbour ensign" from a staff on the taffrail when in port and on coastal hops. For longer passages we would stow it and hoist a smaller "sea ensign" from the spanker gaff. I understood this to be correct procedure for sailing ships.

That's certainly what I've always understood to be correct too.

The only common failing is to tie the ensign to the backstay and although I know some perfectly nice people who do this, I still can't admire it.

Another failing used to be to place it about two-thirds the way up the leech of a bermudan sail, to approximate the position if would have held if flying from the end of a gaff. I don't know if this is what Pete's getting at, but it sounds possible. Now, while I'm sure Pete's a nice bloke , it looks ridiculous to me; but fortunately it doesn't seem to be very popular these days. On the other hand, tying it to the backstay within reach of the deck to approximate the position held if flying from a jackstaff would seem to be acceptable.

The 'correct' place to fly your ensign ... is from ... a point 2/3rds up the leech on a bermudan boat (but who ever saw that done?)

I have. And see my comment above....

Mike

 

[prv]

The RN would disagree with you there. They fly the ensign from the taffrail when in port but when at sea they take that down and hoist one at the peak. No doubt a convention that started because of low flying mizzen booms making the taffrail untenable for a flag staff

I'd have thought it was more likely because an ensign at the rail would be harder to make out from another vessel on the high seas. You can see a sailing ship's rig a long time before you see her hull, and even when relatively close the hull can be hidden behind swells much of the time.

The 'correct' place to fly your ensign on a sailing boat when at sea is from the peak on a gaffer, from the mizzen head on a ketch or yawl

With a gaff mizzen like we had on Kindred Spirit, I think an ensign at the peak of the mizzen gaff looks lovely. I think it looks a bit odd at the mizzen masthead. If going this route, I find the "shepherd's crook" arrangement that suspends the flag above the masthead looks better than poking it up on a sort of burgee staff, and both look better than having it tight to the mast on a halyard from the truck. We did used to do the latter occasionally on Kindred Spirit, but only as a temporary measure when in a French port with the mizzen stowed.

All just my own personal preference

Another failing used to be to place it about two-thirds the way up the leech of a bermudan sail, to approximate the position if would have held if flying from the end of a gaff. I don't know if this is what Pete's getting at, but it sounds possible.

Not quite. I have a small shackle seized to my backstay as high as I could get it, which is about a third of the way up the stay, and a flag halyard passes through that. Nothing attached to the sail.

Pete

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... The 'correct' place to fly your ensign on a sailing boat when at sea is from the peak on a gaffer, from the mizzen head on a ketch or yawl or from a point 2/3rds up the leech on a bermudan boat (but who ever saw that done?)

You say correct, is this traditionally correct, just established etiquette correct, or is there a rule laid down somewhere for the correct placement of national maritime flags. I am genuinely interested because I have a large Monitor on the stern, an aft cabin roof which is sat, stood on and offers a face slapping experience from my backstay flown ensign. I had a notion that it could be flown from the leach area but didn't know where or how or even if it was bull. Your comment is the first hard text to say 2/3rds up. I guess you just use a light line from the boom end to truck to haul it up. Would I have to lower it as I reefed to the 2/3rds position of the reefed sail, okay, sorry, I am just being facetious now.

 

[VicS]

You say correct, is this traditionally correct, just established etiquette correct, or is there a rule laid down somewhere for the correct placement of national maritime flags. I am genuinely interested because I have a large Monitor on the stern, an aft cabin roof which is sat, stood on and offers a face slapping experience from my backstay flown ensign. I had a notion that it could be flown from the leach area but didn't know where or how or even if it was bull. Your comment is the first hard text to say 2/3rds up. I guess you just use a light line from the boom end to truck to haul it up. Would I have to lower it as I reefed to the 2/3rds position of the reefed sail, okay, sorry, I am just being facetious now.

No laid down rules AFAIK Just established traditional practices

Its explained brifly here on the RYA website http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/regssafety/flagetiquette/Pages/flagetiquette.aspx

and in greater depth in the book referred to on the above page where you will find details of the alterntive positions
http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/regssafety/flagetiquette/Pages/febook.aspx