Keel Draft

[Whiterabbits]

Hi everyone.

This is my first post on the forum and I hope you can give me some advice.

I am looking at buying my first boat for family cruising in the south west. Have looked at a number of boats and particularly like the Dufour Classic 36. Having read a number of posts it seems to be a good safe cruising yacht with reasonable sailing capability.

We have seen a particular boat which we like but it has the shallow keel option. How much difference does this make to the sailing ability / seaworthiness bearing in mind we shall be limited to coastal cruising for most of the time.

Should we look for one with a standard keel?

Thanks.

 

[sarabande]

Hi and welcome to the centre of the nautical universe.

First, it's not the East Coast, so there are hundreds and hundreds of decent anchorages for boats drawing 5 or 6 ft. If you think you are going to need to sail on thick dew, then you get a Southerly. Obviously the less the draught, the more places you can visit without taking up residence, but with an emphasis on family sailing, I feel you won't want to be operating at the outer (or inner) limits of the envelope anyway.

Stick in a few details about yourself in the bio page, so that answers to future questions can be "tuned" to your profile. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Best wishes in your search - don't restrict your search to the AWBs, there are lots of fascinating, safe, unusual cruising craft out there too, with masses more personality.

 

[fireball]

Shallow keels do open up further possibilities where there is limited wet stuff available.
Deep keels (5-6') will tend to sail to windward better than the shallow versions.

 

[Gin]

Don't worry too much about the shallow draft/deep draft issue- unless you are a keen racer or anxious to gain every inch to windward I doubt you will notice any difference- stability wise too- but do research other owners for their experience.

Everything is relative too. My deep draft Sadler is 1.5m, the shallow draft a little less- I would have taken either if the spec., condition and price was right. I'm happy on the East Coast with my draft. Your shallow draft equates to my boat's draft.

Go for it if it is the best boat/setup for you.

 

[PeterGibbs]

Somehow the world of sailing is tuned to 2 meters. Funny thing that. Any keel short of that dimension will get into just about anywhere in Europe, in my experience.

Put it the other way, a 1.5m/ 1.8m wing or bilge keel will definitely affect your performance for the worse - take it from one who learned the lesson. Go fin if you possibly can - just look at a dolphin to see the eternal truth of this proposition!

If you need more persuasion just consider the % of boats in the world with other than fins! Funny thing that....again

Of course, we East Coasters like to play up that we have no water - it keeps some undesirables at bay. It has no practical consequences, and definitely does not jusufy buying a boat with a crippled undercarriage. Unless sitting up a muddy gulley on a Saturday afternoon with 20 cms under your sawn off keel is what you really want....

I hope I have said enough to thoroughly offend all the bilgers and wingers out there......it's revenge for the rubbish advice I was given when I started sailing and bought my first bilger

PWG

 

[EdWingfield]

'Unless sitting up a muddy gulley on a Saturday afternoon with 20 cms under your sawn off keel is what you really want....'

Actually Peter, I do. And overnighting in these remote places is even better. You should try it some day.

We bought our boats to get away from it all, so what do we do? We sail from one packed marina to the next.

 

[Gerry]

We have the shallow keel option on our boat, 1.5m. Still get great performance and can get into the shallow anchorages out here in the Caribbean that many others can't.....you may be starting in the South West but who knows where you may end up!

www.gerryantics.blogspot.com

NB. Started my sailing in the South West and i think shallow draft could well be a benefit!

 

[snowleopard]

I don't think shallow draft as such would be much of a benefit in the SW. The choice of harbour is really between staying afloat and drying out. If you are prepared to forego some of the smaller harbours (Looe, St Michael's Mount and most of the little fishing villages) then get a fin keel - depth immaterial - otherwise go for twin keels.

 

[Twister_Ken]

There's another advantage of shallower draft - not often cited - it's much easier to antifoul. You won't need ladders and staging, etc, which you will once you get above about 1.8m draught.

 

[Slow_boat]

How aboput a long keel with a centreboard like a Barbican or Stag 28 and maybe a pair of beaching legs? The best of all possible worlds then.


I know I'm old fashioned but 36' does sound enormous for a first boat, though I realise that just because you're new on here doesn't mean you're new to sailing. You may have sailed three times round the world single handed! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, Hi and welcome to the madhouse where the lunatics surely have taken over the asylum.

 

[TonyS]

You don't say what the shallow option depth is on the D36. I think it is 1.45m. My experience is that you will not notice the difference going to windward - unless racing. But, getting into anchorages, over bars and sills it is a big advantage as well as the antifouling aspect. If you go to S Brittany the advantage is even greater. The stability will be the same for both options. The shallower keel will have the same weight and probably a bigger bulb at the bottom to accomodate the volume lost in the depth.

 

[Whiterabbits]

To all those who have responded so quickly, thank you.

I will complete the bio section in due course, but yes we are relatively new to sailing but have already caught the bug. There is a real passion amongst the community which is infectious.

We have done dingy sailing and have spent this year learning on yachts (approx 4 weeks). Did a week comp crew on dehler 39SQ, some flotilla with day skipper planned. Perhaps a 36ft is big for a first boat but with a family we need the space and don't believe it is too much to handle over a 32. However, we are aware of our inexperience and the dangers if we try to do more than we are capable of. We intend to use experienced skippers for initial cruises.

We have caught the bug and despite it not making financial sense we want to build up our experience on our own boat.

Sounds like the keel will not affect what we need on a first boat and we are not expecting the sort of performance we experienced on the Dehler during our comp crew.

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Neraida]

I've sent you a private message (flashy envelope at the top of the forum page!)

 

[wotayottie]

Cooks

There have been a number of back to back tests of fin vs bilge in the yachting mags using the same basic hull, and none have shown a material difference in performance. However, shallow keels or bilges are invariably put on cruiser hulls, so whilst there might be no difference between (say) two Sadlers one with bilge and one with fin, there would be a fair difference between either Sadler and a First of similar length.

For family cruising you need to buy a family boat. You might only be interested in sailing performance but what about your spouse? Its easy to do what a lot of us have done, buy a boat that puts performance ahead of creature comforts and end up sailing with the lads. Women are funny creatures - they like warm dry well upholstered beds, decent toilets, good cooking facilities, clean accomodation and not something that smells like most old boats do.

So personally, provided the boat will sail reasonably well, I would put equal weight on issues of accomodation, facilities and comfort. If you want to go really fast you would go multi anyway - who bothers about the odd 5 deg of leeway and a knot of extra speed that is the difference between cruiser/racer mono and family cruiser, when you can double the max speed in a good multi.

 

[Skents]

"Women are funny creatures - they like warm dry well upholstered beds, decent toilets, good cooking facilities, clean accomodation and not something that smells like most old boats do."

__________________________________________

Yeah, women can be funny creatures - I happen to love owning a boat with nearly 8 foot draft which goes upwind like a witch - my husband likes the cooking facilities on ours too.

Please don't patronise women sailors. The YBW forum is all too full of blokes happy to blame their lack of sailing "cojones" on SWMBO - "I can't go offshore cos the little woman couldn't hack it, etc". Just look at Liveaboard Link for a post from a guy who is as amused by his wife driving his boat as he would be by a unicycling wombat.

There aren't many people of either gender who would prefer an uncomfortable bed, a bucket bog or a stinky home. Sailing should be a partnership based on different strengths and weaknesses. My husband has the muscle to reef quicker in a squall, I have the patience to tweak that extra half a knot chasing the boat in front. He cooks a better dinner every time, I helm better downwind.

As long as this "SWMBO" culture persists it is no wonder women get put off the cruising life.

 

[Guest]

Hmmmmmmm! somebodies strings are showing! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Skents]

Yeah, Spectra strings!

 

[Sequoiah1]

I think you should go for the deepest keel possible as it helps to keep the boat more upright when going to windward and more comfortable at anchor especially a modern design like a Dufour. South West will not present any problems on a 1.8m draft except when it is silly season and all descend on the place in which case clear off abroard to Southern or West coast Ireland or France. The only thing that may swing it the other way is if you enjoy estuary or river exploring in which case go for the shallow draft. We have shallow draft and it makes a big difference to creek crawling but outright windward sailing performance suffers. I would imagine the thing you liked about the Dufour is the performance and comfort so go with what you tried if you are happy with it.

 

[sighmoon]

Being the proud owner of a 27 footer with nearly 6 foot draft, I think in the next boat I'd happily sacrifice a little upwind performance for the flexibility of being able to dry out, which opens up many interesting places.

30cm less draft wouldn't help at all, in my opinion, as for practical purposes, you'd seldom want to cut it that fine.

 

[Marmalade]

must offer an alternative opinion here... antifouling a shallow draft boat has to be done on one's back - a deep fin from standing. Having done both I know which I'd go for any day!

Simon

PS re the original question... we sail a 2m draft boat on the East Coast. Find the spec you want and the right boat etc and don't be too concerned about the keel config.