KAD44 issue

petem said:
Allegedly changed in September last year (25-30 hours ago).
Click to expand...

Separate to my S/B side Turbo issue, my Port side intermittent issue has re-occurred! This time we have a 2 flash pause and 2 flash error which would appear to suggest....

Code 2.2 Fuel injection pump
Cause: The sensor for the control rod position gives read-
ings outside the permitted range.
Consequence: The engine stops.
Corrective action:
• Check the connections for the injection pump (the actua-
tor) and the control module.
• Erase the diagnostic trouble code (DTC).
• Start the engine.
• Contact an authorised workshop if the fault persists.

Any ideas in addition to the above?

Pete
 
Last edited:
Check the connectors to the sensor that the error is referring to, swap the sensors over between the engines and see if thr issue follows the move. If it does then buy a new sensor?
 
petem said:
Separate to my S/B side Turbo issue, my Port side intermittent issue has re-occurred! This time we have a 2 flash pause and 2 flash error which would appear to suggest....

Code 2.2 Fuel injection pump
Cause: The sensor for the control rod position gives read-
ings outside the permitted range.
Consequence: The engine stops.
Corrective action:
• Check the connections for the injection pump (the actua-
tor) and the control module.
• Erase the diagnostic trouble code (DTC).
• Start the engine.
• Contact an authorised workshop if the fault persists.

Any ideas in addition to the above?

Pete
Click to expand...
Could well be a dodgy connection. Try disconnecting the round multipin connector that goes from the fuel injection pump to the ECU. Spray with contact cleaner and reconnect a few times to clean up the contacts
Fingers crossed
 
julians said:
Check the connectors to the sensor that the error is referring to, swap the sensors over between the engines and see if thr issue follows the move. If it does then buy a new sensor?
Click to expand...

I've done some more investigation and it looks like the injection pump MIGHT be a Bosch VP37 which is the same unit fitted to late 90's VW TDI's and Transits! Anyhow the sensor is integral to the pump and in the car world can become contaminated requiring it to be cleaned. See - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd50iJIlvkI.

However, I suspect the fuel filtering on a boat is far superior to a car's so I'd have thought that it's unlikely to have become clogged up. Bearing in mind that this isn't a part that would suffer from marine duty engine cycles and the engines have only done 750 hours, I find it hard to believe that there's an issue with the injector pump, which are regarded as pretty bullet proof. These can be re-built / repaired which is a bit of a comfort.

So I suspect the issue is a bad connection as suggested by Kashurst above. I'm still unsure if there is a separate cable that connects the pump to the ECU or whether the cables is permanently attached to either the ECU or the pump. Anyone?

Hopefully my mechanic will take a look at it today.
 
Hi Pete
yes it is a separate cable from the injection pump to the ecu etc. I wouldn't let anyone except Bosch do anything to the pump itself. I thing it very unlikely the pump itself has an issue. I will try and go to the boat and take a picture for you.
 
Feels like an electrical issue stemming from an ECU interpretation of sensors .
Now this is the tricky bit that often starts by chucking € and parts at it , senosors , new ECU after cleaning connections .
Any intermittency isn’t helpful as it muddies the water .

Loom

A trusty VP tech once told me the looms age with heat over the years and insulation breaks down .So what I,am adding on top of dodgy contacts is overall loom degeneration . Resistance measurements alter and the ECU can’t see , or the range drops out of the pre set parameters .

I certainly would hang fire on the injector pump until ALL the electrical side has been proofed tested .
 
petem said:
I've done some more investigation and it looks like the injection pump MIGHT be a Bosch VP37 which is the same unit fitted to late 90's VW TDI's and Transits! Anyhow the sensor is integral to the pump and in the car world can become contaminated requiring it to be cleaned. See - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd50iJIlvkI.

However, I suspect the fuel filtering on a boat is far superior to a car's so I'd have thought that it's unlikely to have become clogged up. Bearing in mind that this isn't a part that would suffer from marine duty engine cycles and the engines have only done 750 hours, I find it hard to believe that there's an issue with the injector pump, which are regarded as pretty bullet proof. These can be re-built / repaired which is a bit of a comfort.

So I suspect the issue is a bad connection as suggested by Kashurst above. I'm still unsure if there is a separate cable that connects the pump to the ECU or whether the cables is permanently attached to either the ECU or the pump. Anyone?

Hopefully my mechanic will take a look at it today.
Click to expand...

Careful x referencing auto the VW ( same part / thing ) with the VP as I said ^^^^ different looms = different solution for the same symptoms.
 
kashurst said:
Hi Pete
yes it is a separate cable from the injection pump to the ecu etc. I wouldn't let anyone except Bosch do anything to the pump itself. I thing it very unlikely the pump itself has an issue. I will try and go to the boat and take a picture for you.
Click to expand...

Thanks K, we're a long way off messing with the pump. Pics of the cables would be appreciated.
 
pic as promised

if you follow the cable that comes out of the fuel injection pump, it will go to a big round multi pin connector. On the pic shown my connector is covered in green paint and I have pulled it out a bit for clarity. Yours may well be lurking under the black fuse/relay box assembly. It may appear stuck (one of mine was) but its probably just green paint - however go carefully, don't yank it.

E8JTrUD.jpg


probably worth releasing the ECU main connector too (press the red latch at the bottom of the connector down to unlock it)
give them all a sprat and reconnect a few times. Make sure batteries are all off first.
 
An update. I asked my guy to thoroughly check and clean ALL the engine wiring, connectors, contacts, plugs, etc. Most looked pretty good however there was minor signs of corrosion on one or two connectors. Probably took him an hour to do.

Prior to this work, we had three successive starts where the issue manifested itself. Following the checking / cleaning I have had four successive starts with no issue.

So with any luck this problem has gone away :).
 
After some reliable service this hunting revs / black smoke issue seems to have returned. I'm hoping that it's due to our flat battery but I've had some other causes suggested to me offline.

1. Turbo Bearing – Oil leak results in engine burning its own diesel (can cause engine to emit blue smoke and rev past limiter).
2. Throttle issue* – Can be eliminated by turning the throttles around and plugging back in. (don't forget to re-calibrate throttles!
3. Corroded throttle plugs - Kashurst, these are only a few inches from the throttle body so you won't have to dismantle your boat to check them.
4. Air leak
5. Stiff gear cable issue causing voltage drop ("EXACT" cables recommended)
6. Damaged / burnt wiring loom adjacent to Turbo
7. Fuel filter anti-siphon ball bearing sticking (suggested by Kashurst of this parish)



* unlikely to be my issue as boat is not engaging gear as revs rise.
 
My tech when I had Kad 300 s many moons ago managed to swop the umbilicals over from each engine .
They both ran but got sensor stuff from each other .
This was to prove out any dodgy ECU , injector pumps and test the actual loom itself .
As mentioned earlier in my posts the looms resistance changes with age .
My particular issues moved with the loom , it’s was a high temp gauge reading .We did this after changing the sender and gauge on the effected engine did not solve the problem .

Back to basics
Your issue is black smoke , too much fuel or not enough air = too rich mixture ratio .
Turbos can be visually examined for blade clearance , axial play and crude bearing spinning with your finger if you remove the air in pipage - the elbow .

Oil quality is crucial for turbo bearing longevity.........that’s partly why you need to know exactly which oil is being used .If you DIY your own services that’s the only 100% way to know what’s going in .Avoid cheap none OEM spec oils with turbos at your peril .

Air leak - there’s a lot of pipes with those engines with rubber seals and O rings which deteriorate with time or are displaced = poor fit .

Injectors them self
Hate to say it but with a triple owner boat you never really know how conscientious the other two are nursing EGT s ?
If the stern gear had the slightest fouling and they run it as they last were on it because it can , they can then it’s almost inevitable the EGT s are elevated way N of 650 degrees and the tips of the injector( s) are irreparable damaged .One or more may be sticking intermittently and over fuelling = Black smoke .
Furthermore the turbo bearings will fry first ......more so if as mentioned none OEM oil spec has been used .
A bearing spinning @ 550 degrees will last longer than one @ 750;degrees - trust me on that .

Finally roll on the day you end up with a MAN powered straight shaft Pershing and are able to put all these VP woes and ticking time £/€ bombs behind you.:encouragement:

So to eliminate sticky tip(s) they are gonna need to be pulled and sent away for testing .
 
Thanks Porto.

When you say umbilicals, what was swopped?

The idea of a damaged loom (there are multiple ones) does have some appeal and may be an item that can be easily swopped for diagnosis purposes.

Turbos could be an issue as I asknowledge above. I suspect they are the original turbos (17 years old) so are due for renewal.

I trust the previous two engineers so am confident that decnet / correct oil has been used.

Injectors were refurbished two years ago so I don't believe that is the cause.
 
Given the history of 17 y old turbos I’d check those visually first .
Although my hunting phenomenon did not give out any smoke , the symptoms were revs dropping from say 3200 cruise ( as one turbo lost its ability to run at high enough rpm temporarily) down to superchargers cut in say circa 2800 rpm for 30 secs .....boat slows a bit rpm dial flickers down .......then it ( turbo ) recovers and both go back to set cruise 3200 .
Starts once per trip / day. Then gradually worsens and the time down increases to a few mins every hr . Eventually it’s won’t plane get up and go as the bearings deteriorate.
Visually the bad turbo has burnt blade tips and a 2mm + gap from the housing and with your fingers it turns but dies not spin freely if you twang it .....it should if beautifully free and balanced.
Remove the elbow easy enough to do to inspect .

Any how here’s a pic ( from the Internet not mine ) of the umbilical to answer your Q

upload image jpg
Red unplugged and swung across to yellow position and visa versa with the other one .
Doing this swop proved out a loop fault .
 
Just a thought before I'm shot down in a ball of flames.

You have a duff battery and charging issues right? One of them new fangled engines with all the electronic gizmo's.

Could there be a possible connection?

Oh, and hooora! for my own KAD42's with their screaming superchargers. They just run, ignorance being bliss. :encouragement: ;)
 
BruceK said:
Just a thought before I'm shot down in a ball of flames.

You have a duff battery and charging issues right? One of them new fangled engines with all the electronic gizmo's.

Could there be a possible connection?

Oh, and hooora! for my own KAD42's with their screaming superchargers. They just run, ignorance being bliss. :encouragement: ;)
Click to expand...

Bruce, it's quite possible that the flat battery is causing this issue but we were experiencing the issue earlier in the season when I believe the charger was working. But we'll certainly try it with a fully charged battery before exploring other causes.
 
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