Monkeydog
New Member
Whats the best way of finding TDC for Cylinder No.1.
Kad 44 TDC
- Thread starter Monkeydog
- Start date
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Presume lack of manufactures timing marks on the flywheel and cam shaft ?
Or you want to verify them anyhow ? Eg replacing a timing chain or belt .
Even so remove an injector and place a knitting needle in or plastic straw .
Turn the engine by hand and watch it move up and down .
When it rises to its max height and starts to drop .....or just before there you are = TDC .
There will be other ways if you are simply wanting to adjust the tappets .
eg look at the firing order and use the “ rocker method “ as in setting the valve rocker gaps ...tappets .
Turn the engine watch the valves
using the rocker method I usually start at #1 valve adjustment since the firing order on all inline 6 engines is 1 5 3 6 2 4. To get to the #1 cylinder valve adjustment bar the engine over and watch the valves at cylinder #6. You will see the exhaust valve closing…… just when it’s totally closed the intake valve will JUST start to open (commonly known as valve overlap). This indicates that both #1 and #6 pistons are at TDC but #1 cylinder intake and exhaust valves are on the compression stroke and ready for adjustment while #6 cylinder is on the exhaust stroke
Plenty of u tube vids on the “rocker method “ for 6 cyl valve adjustment.
It easy enough I successfully did it on my 12.8 L MANs .
Or you want to verify them anyhow ? Eg replacing a timing chain or belt .
Even so remove an injector and place a knitting needle in or plastic straw .
Turn the engine by hand and watch it move up and down .
When it rises to its max height and starts to drop .....or just before there you are = TDC .
There will be other ways if you are simply wanting to adjust the tappets .
eg look at the firing order and use the “ rocker method “ as in setting the valve rocker gaps ...tappets .
Turn the engine watch the valves
using the rocker method I usually start at #1 valve adjustment since the firing order on all inline 6 engines is 1 5 3 6 2 4. To get to the #1 cylinder valve adjustment bar the engine over and watch the valves at cylinder #6. You will see the exhaust valve closing…… just when it’s totally closed the intake valve will JUST start to open (commonly known as valve overlap). This indicates that both #1 and #6 pistons are at TDC but #1 cylinder intake and exhaust valves are on the compression stroke and ready for adjustment while #6 cylinder is on the exhaust stroke
Plenty of u tube vids on the “rocker method “ for 6 cyl valve adjustment.
It easy enough I successfully did it on my 12.8 L MANs .
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Can I ask why you need to find it ?
To remove number 1 injector or even take the valve cover off on a 44/300 isn’t a 5 minute job and you will require parts to do this , so if you can avoid that I would .
Tell me why you need to find it and I will steer you .
Monkeydog
New Member
Having an issue with black smoke when engine is operating above 850rpm and below 2600rpm approx, just outside compressor range. anything above that not that noticeable as engine smoky by nature and no difference between the 2 engines at higher RPM. so wondering if i have issue with the fuel pump and do i need to know TDC when removing or fitting back Pump. as you mentioned not easy removing valve cover specially when you have a 1'' gap between rocker cover and floor!!!
Things i have eliminated so far are:
Injectors- were O/h by Bosh dealer and new Nozzles fitted. resistance ok on No.1 Injector. Swapped them with o/h injectors from Stbd engine just to be sure.
valve clearance checked.
N/R flap checked on Air filter housing and no leaks.
charge air pressure ok checked with digital gauge slightly lower than what it says in manual but both engines are the same.
Air cooler removed cleaned was not dirty even for engine with 1200hrs
Turbo visual inspection, clearance and condition same as other stbd turbo
ECU swapped from stbd engine including manifold temp sensor + ECU coolant temps sensor
Flywheel pick up removed not dirty
Fuel Feed pump swapped out.
all new volvo filters.
Temps and pressures all normal and engine sounds and runs good apart from smoke.
Really dont want to go messing about with fuel pump i am suspecting its wiring harness as i played around with harness and plugs it stopped smoking im sure, but not for long.
Also compressor dose not cut in and out like stbd engine. when engine up to temp and activate 'N' button and increase rpm quickly compressor kicks in and stays on. engine rpm is at 1500rpm which is ok.
when i do the same test on stbd engine compressor will kick in for a second or two but then clutch disengages. this is all while at the dock in Neutral. while i am under way compressors operate normally kick in and out when they should, port engine (Smoky One) might kick in a slight bit earlier than stbd but nothing to noticeable. Again i am wondering is ECU getting duff information from harness or is it the fuel pump / fuel temp sensor etc.
Last edited:
kashurst
Well-Known Member
the supercharger will come on and stay on if the ECU thinks the engine is cold. once the engine is warmed up a bit the supercharger will come on as you describe for the good engine and then dropout. Have you tried swapping the ECU engine temperature sensor - its a different sensor to the one feeding the gauges. On a KAD 300 its under the exhaust manifold next to the turbo. Could be in teh thermostat housing on a 44
Monkeydog
New Member
Hello thanks for your reply yes as mentioned ''ECU coolant Temp sensor' ' swapped. its in the same place as the Kad 300
Portofino
Well-Known Member
I has a twin kad 300 boat once based in the SoF .Started to get spurious symptoms which manifested in odd temp gauge readings , with occasional intermittent super charger kicking in and out on one engine
The SC can be many issues .But yours sounds ok mine was worn turbos .
Often you can get more than one thing with overlying symptoms in which case you need an experienced technician .
Point is this I used a trusty French “ Volvo Paul guy “ who had looked after it for many years + many more clients .
For the gauges issue he swopped everything over ( sensor + gauge ) and tested everything through then came to the conclusion it was the loom .
“Loom “ I said ?
Part of his diagnosis was based on unplugging the big umbilical at the back of the black box , you know the one with the multi pin screw in socket .....and moving them across from the good engine to the bad one . You can do this with the stb ...swing it across to the port engine but not easily the other way and it was the port temp gauge which read high with the port ( it’s own loom )
He told me the insulation or wiring breaks down with heat soak over the years and eventually it changes the resistance . Hence spurious signals are generated between good sensors and the good ECU ,s .
I saw this in your post #4 ^^^
“i am suspecting its wiring harness as i played around with harness and plugs it stopped smoking im sure, but not for long.”
I had the boat a lengthy 9 years and it was coming up to needing quite a bit of work engine wise so fortunately I moved it on ...sold it ,
Perhaps this loom heat soak / breakdown in insulation thing manifests more in the hotter Med than cooler U.K. ?
So my guy called “Volvo Chris “ sees it more than the forum Volvo Paul ?
You did give another a clue re engine room ceiling distance between rocker box top of 1 inch .
So maybe if you can by sufficiently unclipping them get enough slack ....swap the umbilicals and see if the problem migrates .
The SC can be many issues .But yours sounds ok mine was worn turbos .
Often you can get more than one thing with overlying symptoms in which case you need an experienced technician .
Point is this I used a trusty French “ Volvo Paul guy “ who had looked after it for many years + many more clients .
For the gauges issue he swopped everything over ( sensor + gauge ) and tested everything through then came to the conclusion it was the loom .
“Loom “ I said ?
Part of his diagnosis was based on unplugging the big umbilical at the back of the black box , you know the one with the multi pin screw in socket .....and moving them across from the good engine to the bad one . You can do this with the stb ...swing it across to the port engine but not easily the other way and it was the port temp gauge which read high with the port ( it’s own loom )
He told me the insulation or wiring breaks down with heat soak over the years and eventually it changes the resistance . Hence spurious signals are generated between good sensors and the good ECU ,s .
I saw this in your post #4 ^^^
“i am suspecting its wiring harness as i played around with harness and plugs it stopped smoking im sure, but not for long.”
I had the boat a lengthy 9 years and it was coming up to needing quite a bit of work engine wise so fortunately I moved it on ...sold it ,
Perhaps this loom heat soak / breakdown in insulation thing manifests more in the hotter Med than cooler U.K. ?
So my guy called “Volvo Chris “ sees it more than the forum Volvo Paul ?
You did give another a clue re engine room ceiling distance between rocker box top of 1 inch .
So maybe if you can by sufficiently unclipping them get enough slack ....swap the umbilicals and see if the problem migrates .
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
You don’t need to find TDC to remove the pump because the boss / gear on the pump has an unsymmetrical bolt pattern , 4X 13mm bolt head so so cannot get the pump wrong it’s impossible.Having an issue with black smoke when engine is operating above 850rpm and below 2600rpm approx, just outside compressor range. anything above that not that noticeable as engine smoky by nature and no difference between the 2 engines at higher RPM. so wondering if i have issue with the fuel pump and do i need to know TDC when removing or fitting back Pump. as you mentioned not easy removing valve cover specially when you have a 1'' gap between rocker cover and floor!!!
Things i have eliminated so far are:
Injectors- were O/h by Bosh dealer and new Nozzles fitted. resistance ok on No.1 Injector. Swapped them with o/h injectors from Stbd engine just to be sure.
valve clearance checked.
N/R flap checked on Air filter housing and no leaks.
charge air pressure ok checked with digital gauge slightly lower than what it says in manual but both engines are the same.
Air cooler removed cleaned was not dirty even for engine with 1200hrs
Turbo visual inspection, clearance and condition same as other stbd turbo
ECU swapped from stbd engine including manifold temp sensor + ECU coolant temps sensor
Flywheel pick up removed not dirty
Fuel Feed pump swapped out.
all new volvo filters.
Temps and pressures all normal and engine sounds and runs good apart from smoke.
Really dont want to go messing about with fuel pump i am suspecting its wiring harness as i played around with harness and plugs it stopped smoking im sure, but not for long.
Also compressor dose not cut in and out like stbd engine. when engine up to temp and activate 'N' button and increase rpm quickly compressor kicks in and stays on. engine rpm is at 1500rpm which is ok.
when i do the same test on stbd engine compressor will kick in for a second or two but then clutch disengages. this is all while at the dock in Neutral. while i am under way compressors operate normally kick in and out when they should, port engine (Smoky One) might kick in a slight bit earlier than stbd but nothing to noticeable. Again i am wondering is ECU getting duff information from harness or is it the fuel pump / fuel temp sensor etc.
you will however require Volvo tools to refit the pump as the advance piston requires a tool to lock it when you fit it back on in relation to pump timing figure .
unless you think it’s the pump I would leave well alone .
Your black smoke can be borne from possible wrong air to fuel ratio, could be a faulty super charger clutch not engaging at correct rpm , could also be ECU related if it’s really that bad , could also be the boost switch inside the ECU .
Air leak on inlet tract from turbo to cylinder head .
Does engine pull full rpm on trial ?
Starting from cold ok?
kashurst
Well-Known Member
Seems like you have either too much fuel during S/C operation or not enough air coming via the S/C
Is it worth swapping the supercharger and clutch over? I am wondering if the clutch is slipping under load or the charger it
self is leaking somewhere. Does the clutch on the smokey engine seem much hotter than the other?
Have you checked the fuel temperature sensor inside the fuel pump itself. In the engine electricals manual it explains how to measure /test it at the round multipoint plug injection pump connector.
Is it worth swapping the supercharger and clutch over? I am wondering if the clutch is slipping under load or the charger it
self is leaking somewhere. Does the clutch on the smokey engine seem much hotter than the other?
Have you checked the fuel temperature sensor inside the fuel pump itself. In the engine electricals manual it explains how to measure /test it at the round multipoint plug injection pump connector.
Monkeydog
New Member
pulls about 50 - 100rpm less than good engine might be just gauges.
When i was running it last year no slow starting but after i piped in the fuel flow meter again this year it slow to start first time. Will start no problem after first start, think this is just air or leak in line never got back to boat yet to clear this up . I removed the fuel flow meter last year to see if this was the cause of the black smoke
pretty sure no air leaks as pressure readings are good, taken boost pressure from the 'T' connection under ECU
If you swap the ECU between engines do the throttle levers work in reverse (I.E when you go ahead engine actually goes astern) do you have to swap solenoids on Gear box.?
Tx
When i was running it last year no slow starting but after i piped in the fuel flow meter again this year it slow to start first time. Will start no problem after first start, think this is just air or leak in line never got back to boat yet to clear this up . I removed the fuel flow meter last year to see if this was the cause of the black smoke
pretty sure no air leaks as pressure readings are good, taken boost pressure from the 'T' connection under ECU
If you swap the ECU between engines do the throttle levers work in reverse (I.E when you go ahead engine actually goes astern) do you have to swap solenoids on Gear box.?
Tx
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
No just put engine into calibration mode and re calibrate levers .
