KAD 44 Replacement with KAD 42

[Dazzajohm]

I've got a princess 266 with a KAD 44 which I've been having a few problems with. To cut a very long story short after the dealer I got the boat from hasn't managed to get to the bottom of the problems with the 44, he's offered a swap out with a 42 he has on the shelf.

Should I be worried about the difference in HP? As the 42 is about 30hp less than the 44 will that make much of a difference to performance?

 

[CLB]

What are the problems with the 44? Are they insurmountable?
The 42 is a less complex engine but 30 horses down is going to be noticeable.

 

[volvopaul]

I've got a princess 266 with a KAD 44 which I've been having a few problems with. To cut a very long story short after the dealer I got the boat from hasn't managed to get to the bottom of the problems with the 44, he's offered a swap out with a 42 he has on the shelf.

Should I be worried about the difference in HP? As the 42 is about 30hp less than the 44 will that make much of a difference to performance?

Obviously doesn't know what he's doing but happy to make a tidy profit out the engine swap

 

[simonfraser]

Obviously doesn't know what he's doing but happy to make a tidy profit out the engine swap

+1 indeed, ask some one competent to check it out like volvopaul

 

[Boat2016]

Sounds like dealer is trying to take you for a ride, obviously wants to sell you what he has rather than sorting out the problems for you, if you bought boat with a 44 then it's not right for dealer to try and fit something of lesser spec, insist they sort out the 44 or get it done yourself and pass on the costs

 

[Dazzajohm]

Just to be clear, I wouldn't be paying for the swap over, he's just offered it as a resolve as he's got a 42 on the shelf.

The guy has been really good at trying to find a conclusion to the problems with the 44 and has even got another local firm to have a look as well but he had no luck either.

Right now I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place as I've had problems with this ever since having the boat and all I want is my bloody engine to work properly. Of course I'd much rather have a working 44, but reslly it seems my options here and now are go for the swap and hope I get an engine that works and doesn't effect the performance too much or try and find someone else to have a look at my own expense which could be thousands and try claim it back from the dealer which I would think would be stressful and unlikely.

 

[Dazzajohm]

What are the problems with the 44? Are they insurmountable?
The 42 is a less complex engine but 30 horses down is goings

As per a previous post on this forum the main problem has been steam bellowing out from 3000rpm onwards that's full of soot and covers the whole transom. More recently it has developed a significant oil leak where after an hours run its all leaked out to the bilge but after investigation seems it's coming out from underneath the engine which isn't accessible in situ. They have spent hours trying to resolve but just haven't got anywhere to be noticeable.

 

[AllanG]

If I was you, as they've been unable to fix your engine after numerous attempts, instead of thinking about changing the engine, I'd be looking at giving the boat back and asking for a full refund!

 

[volvopaul]

As I've said before will they also do a prop calculation and give you 2 new props as well, they may even need to swap the drive ratio to match your boats hull, it's not that easy just taking engines out and bolting another in then expecting it to work. Remind me what's the fault?

 

[mm1]

If I had the choice of a perfectly working 44 or a perfectly working 42 I would take the 42 every time.
However if you have the opportunity to return with a full refund I would take it or agree a price for the change of engine take it as cash and pay a proper engineer to fix your boat.
Regards

 

[Dazzajohm]

As I've said before will they also do a prop calculation and give you 2 new props as well, they may even need to swap the drive ratio to match your boats hull, it's not that easy just taking engines out and bolting another in then expecting it to work. Remind me what's the fault?

Well I'd like to think the prop and drive ratio would be checked and changed if necessary but now you mention it if I go ahead I'll check with them this will be done.

The initial problem has always been that once I'm at 3000rpm onwards steam bellows out the exhaust which is full of soot and covers the whole transom and rear canopy of the boat. I know they've done a whole host of things to try and resolve but no luck. Then last week a significant oil leak developed from somewhere near the back of the engine ( I believe aftercooler and turbo area) to the point where the whole lot of oil disappeared in the bilge under the engine after an hours run. They took the pipes off the turbo expecting oil in them but was clear and then investigated and replaced the aftercooler but still no fix so have come to the conclusion that they are going to need to have the engine out to sort anyway so instead of me being out the water for some time while this happens have said they have the 42 ready to go which they can put in

 

[Dazzajohm]

If I had the choice of a perfectly working 44 or a perfectly working 42 I would take the 42 every time.
However if you have the opportunity to return with a full refund I would take it or agree a price for the change of engine take it as cash and pay a proper engineer to fix your boat.
Regards

That hasn't been an option so far, and to be fair if hypothetically I did go down this route I'm back to square one trying to find something else which as I'm sure everyone knows can be easier said than done. Plus engine issues aside I do love the boat.

I think as long as in theory - so with the new props and adjusted drive ratio if necessary - the 42 will still perform reasonably then I'll be happy. I'm not after something to go bombing about in at + 30 kts, but if I can still cruise around at comfortable RPM at 20ish kts I'll be happy ?

 

[volvopaul]

View attachment 64466


Well I'd like to think the prop and drive ratio would be checked and changed if necessary but now you mention it if I go ahead I'll check with them this will be done.

The initial problem has always been that once I'm at 3000rpm onwards steam bellows out the exhaust which is full of soot and covers the whole transom and rear canopy of the boat. I know they've done a whole host of things to try and resolve but no luck. Then last week a significant oil leak developed from somewhere near the back of the engine ( I believe aftercooler and turbo area) to the point where the whole lot of oil disappeared in the bilge under the engine after an hours run. They took the pipes off the turbo expecting oil in them but was clear and then investigated and replaced the aftercooler but still no fix so have come to the conclusion that they are going to need to have the engine out to sort anyway so instead of me being out the water for some time while this happens have said they have the 42 ready to go which they can put in

Right. It's blowing oil out under load, this tells me you have a piston blow by problem with means a rebuild with pistons and liners, the black soot it's because the engine is under load , it can't perform as it's required to because it's worn out.

These people should know a worn out engine from a good one , the breather pipe is at the rear of the engine venting to the open air. I'd be getting a dealer to test this engine from miles away that will give you an opinion unbiased .

 

[Portofino]

Told him on his other thread "steam ---etc"
Ring or poss valve guide -oil burning
That's before it's blowing out down stairs
Which we have found out
Advised to rev it and take off dip stick or filler cap

Op did you get a competent engineer out ?

You should insist on a same replacement or rebuild
If your warranty holds up ?
Overloading , from fouling and kg excess =
High EGT for too long = rings or valve guides wear
Comes on gradually

So a lower Hp with duff ratio and props =
Arrive @ same place any time soon after
You need more Hp = less load for longevity of a diesel

 

[Dazzajohm]

Told him on his other thread "steam ---etc"
Ring or poss valve guide -oil burning
That's before it's blowing out down stairs
Which we have found out
Advised to rev it and take off dip stick or filler cap

Op did you get a competent engineer out ?

You should insist on a same replacement or rebuild
If your warranty holds up ?
Overloading , from fouling and kg excess =
High EGT for too long = rings or valve guides wear
Comes on gradually

So a lower Hp with duff ratio and props =
Arrive @ same place any time soon after
You need more Hp = less load for longevity of a diesel

The guy I got it from is a Volvo specialist, plus he got another local engineer to come out and have a look. On top of that I also spoke to another engineer who is very popular in my area to tell me what he would do and where he would start looking etc. The original guy I got the boat from has gone through all the bits the last guy I spoke to said he would do. I'm no engineer but it seems like they have been pretty thorough and some of the time they were on the boat I was too and watched what they were doing.

Boat was clean when it went in the water a few months ago and I've only done 10hrs since so I don't think there's any question regarding warranty.

I take on board everyone's comments and of course I realise I'd be getting an older and lower spec engine with the 42 but it's been a stressful, annoying and long few months trying to get this resolved to a point where I can use the boat without it being in the back of my mind it might konk out on me. All I was after reslly was all things being well - so correct props, correct ratios and the 42 performing properly as opposed to the 44 which clearly isn't performing correctly, can I still expect reasonable performance from the 42 and in real terms what difference really will the 30hp less actually make. For example in my 44, at 3000ish rpm I'd be doing 16 - 20 kts. What difference is the 42 likely to make regarding speed at the same rpm?

 

[volvopaul]

The guy I got it from is a Volvo specialist, plus he got another local engineer to come out and have a look. On top of that I also spoke to another engineer who is very popular in my area to tell me what he would do and where he would start looking etc. The original guy I got the boat from has gone through all the bits the last guy I spoke to said he would do. I'm no engineer but it seems like they have been pretty thorough and some of the time they were on the boat I was too and watched what they were doing.

Boat was clean when it went in the water a few months ago and I've only done 10hrs since so I don't think there's any question regarding warranty.

I take on board everyone's comments and of course I realise I'd be getting an older and lower spec engine with the 42 but it's been a stressful, annoying and long few months trying to get this resolved to a point where I can use the boat without it being in the back of my mind it might konk out on me. All I was after reslly was all things being well - so correct props, correct ratios and the 42 performing properly as opposed to the 44 which clearly isn't performing correctly, can I still expect reasonable performance from the 42 and in real terms what difference really will the 30hp less actually make. For example in my 44, at 3000ish rpm I'd be doing 16 - 20 kts. What difference is the 42 likely to make regarding speed at the same rpm?

The answer is with a prop calculation, it's not a guessing game.

 

[DavidJ]

Sorry but just to throw another spanner in the works. The resale value of your boat is considerably reduced with an old Kad 42 engine. That moter must be near 20 years old. Who is going to buy that unless heavily discounted.

 

[aquatom]

You would also loose the electronic control and have to go back to the mechanical system.
Best to fix what you have.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

The guy I got it from is a Volvo specialist, plus he got another local engineer to come out and have a look. On top of that I also spoke to another engineer who is very popular in my area to tell me what he would do and where he would start looking etc. The original guy I got the boat from has gone through all the bits the last guy I spoke to said he would do. I'm no engineer but it seems like they have been pretty thorough and some of the time they were on the boat I was too and watched what they were doing.

In the nicest possible way, it's all very well saying that they appear to have been very thorough - but the simple fact is that they haven't correctly diagnosed your fault. Volvopaul is on the money here - get an authorised dealer on it, from out of town.

The plan to swap the 44 for a 42 is fraught with difficulty and you would be best to not do this - for all the reasons that everyone else has mentioned (drive/prop incompatibility, mechanical vs edc control, resale issues, loss of performance).

Get it fixed properly, or like AllanG says, give the boat back.

 

[beejay190]

I've had problems with this ever since having the boat

Really sorry to read of your problems. Can't help. Did you have a sea trial with an independent engineer on board prior to buyin the boat. ? Did they run at 3,000 + rpm ? If so i assume that the problems you are now facing did not arise. Strange !