just starting out, what boat to get?

[oceanman]

hi everyone,
just joined the site. i am finally going to give sailing a go this year and im looking to get my first boat, something small and not too expencive, a boat that is safe for a newbe and can be sailed single handed. i have seen a nice little drascombe scaffie for sale. would it be a good boat to start with?
thankfull for any help.

 

[yoda]

Welcome to the forum. The Drascombe will be a good boat - but - to answer your question we need a bit more information. Have you done any sailing at all? If not do you have a plan for somebody to teach you or a club where you can learn? Learning the basics in a dinghy is an excellent way to start, the Drascombe will allow you to travel a little further but at a more relaxed pace. Others will follow with more advice - mine to you is keep reading this post and answer the questions as they arise. By doing this you will guide the answers given and hopefully end up with the right answer.

Yoda

 

[Quandary]

I recently had a Laser 13, a very stable cruising dinghy for a couple of years which we used for mucking about Loch Fyne and to intoduce adults to sailing in the local club. I bought it on a trailer with launching trolley for around £2k and sold it after two years for exactly the same as I paid for it. Stable, tough and durable, easy to launch and recover single handed (unlike the similar but heavier Laser 15) with a two piece mast and roller furling headsail and reefing mainsail; needs zero maintenance.
There is a 'Laser Cruising Assoc.' who use these dinghies for camping cruises and weekends in England. Great boat to teach yourself to sail in but long out of production and in big demand.

 

[Searush]

The Scaffie is a great traditional design & IIRC, she is loose footed (ie no boom) so an excellent starter boat. Not that cheap (good boats seldom are) but should retain her value for when you want bigger. One point to consider is that you will probably get a weekend cruiser with sitting headroom for the same price as an open Scaffie
.
Join a handy local club & sail on other peoples' boats to get the hang of it. And consider leaving your purchase for at least a few months until you have sailed a few different boats.

 

[Lady Campanula]

As Ol' Furry Face says, the Scaffie is a fine small boat, and certainly well suited to estuary, sheltered bay and weather-cautious short coastal trips. There are many hundreds of miles of British coast that would be suitable....

I'd suggest getting some fenders that'll fit under seats, so you won't worry about waves throwing themselves into the boat - which happens very occasionally if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time - 'cos the boat will float. I'd suggest getting a number of rolltop drybags to keep stuff in - so you know you'll be able to get dry and warm qgain, regardless.

I'd suggest you find a few local members of the Dinghy Cruising Association ( and the Association for the Scaffie ). You may not choose to go 'hard core' quite like them, but they'll certainly point you towards a whole lot of good ideas and places, from which you'll gain both good times ( VIP ) and good experiences ( VIP ). Take a waterproof camera - we want to see what you get up to!

We all have the occasional rough day, when something happens we wish did not. That's part of it... and that's all part of the stories you'll tell.

Welcome! You know of course, there's no cure for this.....

 

[blackbeard]

Some good advice above.
I'll just add my view:
It may sound paradoxical, but you may get more and better sailing if you don't actually own a boat. Thus, the best boat to start with is someone else's. Could be a friend's boat, or a club boat, or maybe a boat which comes as part of a course, flotilla or whatever. Advantages (apart from cost) are that you will be in company with someone experienced (thus more fun, less terror, and faster learning), and that you will be able to try out various types of boat so you can find the one that suits you.
Joining a club is a good idea, most clubs have owners looking for crew, some clubs own boats which are available for members to use.
However, if really want to buy a boat, something Drascombeish sounds a good place to start.

 

[Seajet]

I would tend to say the Scaffie is a heavy, expensive low performance lump, unless one particularly fancies traditional style boats and dinghy cruising, which is a whole different ball game to learning to sail, just as one may or may not think learning to drive in an MGB is a good idea ( had one ).

I agree with Searush, sail as many possible other people's boats before buying one of your own; you may be surprised how your ideas change !

People who have started their sailing on dinghies will ALWAYS have a better idea of boat handling, at any scale, than those who jump into a 40'er as their first boat no matter what the posing quotient...

If possible stick with dinghies and migrate to at least moderately high performance designs even if not too bothered about racing, just for the sake of getting experience on the sailing equivalent of F-16 fighters, seriously !

An example being say the 14' Scorpion dinghy; this and the Mirror can be singlehanded, but the Scorpion would be a useful 'learning curve' ! Achingly beautiful bits of craftsmanship, seaworthy, fast,no trapeze, available for a few hundred quid if you don't want to be a racing nut; probably best to start with something like a cheap Mirror for a season first.

After a couple of seasons in such dinghies, - much better from a club leaving the boat set up on a trolley, forget trailing to slips and rigging if at all avoidable - then after having a great deal of fun - which is supposed to be what it's all about - you will have the experience to choose a cruiser wisely; and sail rings around the people who started with huge boats !

Oceanman, you haven't said whereabouts you intend to sail, if in the Chichester Harbour area I could probably help, but anyway if you say where someone will be able to do so.

 

[jwilson]

hi everyone,
just joined the site. i am finally going to give sailing a go this year and im looking to get my first boat, something small and not too expencive, a boat that is safe for a newbe and can be sailed single handed. i have seen a nice little drascombe scaffie for sale. would it be a good boat to start with?
thankfull for any help.

Join a loca club and sail a dinghy - but preferably one a lot more responsive than a Drascombe. Wear a wetsuit. You SHOULD capsize occasionally. If you don't you're not trying hard enough. You learn more about boat handling in a planing dinghy that's just about on the edge of control than you will ever learn if you start with a heavy boat, whatever its size.

Mirror very cheap and good fun singlehanded, though just a bit too stable. Laser even better if you don't mind much more regular capsizes. If you can sail a Laser in 20-25 knots of wind you can sail anything anywhere.

 

[Quandary]

I spent a couple of summers introducing adults (mainly the parents of children who had signed on for the Clubs sailing courses) to sailing. The Club has Picos which are great for kids, but their mothers who are water wary did not feel relaxed enough in them to enjoy the first few hours on the water so I took them out in a heavy dinghy which can carry up to 4 adults comfortably and only capsizes if mishandled on a beezy day. After a couple of evening sessions most of them had gained confidence sufficiently to begin to lose their fear of a capsize and start to push it a bit.
The point I am trying to make is that a challenging first sail in a high performance dinghy (or keelboat) risks putting the complete beginner off the sport for good, gradually gaining experience seems to work much better for those who have stayed off the water until adulthood, most kids are different, they are looking for excitement, and can't wait for the first capsize, one of the challenges with them was getting them to stop fooling about in the water and begin to start thinking about performance. At the same time I agree that there is no point in buying a dog, you might soon get bored with it.

 

[Lakesailor]

Good points there.
There is a world of difference between some of the 17/19ft crusiers.
My re-introduction to sailing was a Valiant 18 which was a heavy slug, but ideal to mess about in. The next boat, a Foxcub 18 was much more sprightly, like a Europa, but much more fussy to sail than the Valiant.
A couple of dinghies and now a Seahawk 17.
I would suggest something like the Seahawk.
It sails well. It is light enough to trail. It has a lift keel. It is CHEAP. You would have to try hard to pay more than £1500, even for a great one.

Of course we don't know where the OP wants to sail, but a cheap small cruiser will be a good introduction and you'll always get your money back.

 

[dt4134]

It may sound paradoxical, but you may get more and better sailing if you don't actually own a boat.

I'm with Blackbeard on this one. Skippering a boat is much more complex than driving a car and it is very difficult to pick it up by trial and error. For every one that suceeds that way many fall by the wayside. You could very easily put yourself off and end up with an expensive millstone round your neck. It's a well known saying that some people only have two good days on their boat, the day they buy the boat and the day they sell it.

Join a club, crew on the members' boats and any other boats you can get on. Go for a mixture of skippers just in case you happen to chance upon a numptie the first time round. Try dinghy sailing too.

After a bit if you're still keen, do a basic RYA course like the Comp Crew course. Try a flotilla holiday in the Med when you get the knowledge & confidence to try skippering. Then maybe do an RYA Day Skipper course and charter a few times.

Then at least you'll bring a little knowledge to owning your first boat and will avoid some of the expensive mistakes.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Join a club, crew on the members' boats and any other boats you can get on. ... Try dinghy sailing too. ... do a basic RYA course like the Comp Crew course. Try a flotilla holiday in the Med ... do an RYA Day Skipper course and charter a few times.

That's a hell of a palaver. Buying a small cheap boat, getting out there and doing it will be much faster and much more rewarding. This sailing lark really isn't terribly hard, or at least it needn't be. Buying a 36 footer and setting off for the Fastnet Rock may be a tad over ambitious - buy a Scaffie and going for a play isn't.

 

[Seajet]

I know people in their 80's who sail relatively high performance dinghies, and they're not even experienced !

Like others here I do suggest you start with dinghies, something relatively docile like a Mirror to start with ( such boats are not just plodders, they're responsive enough to show any slightest change in conditions and versatile enough for family picnics or just pull up a little on a suitable beach for a rest and sight-see ).

Then as I and others suggest, go to a higher performance dinghy, you'll need a dry or wet suit, capsizing is designed in ( it is on Mirrors etc too ) and is completely par for the course.

When I was a dinghy instructor I found people would tend to build up a fear of capsizing, so ASAP I got the boat into a safe place and deliberately capsized her ( all pupils were briefed on capsize drill, but some thought it academic ! ) - the transformation once they realised they could push the boat beyond limits, capsize, pull the boat back up and do it all again, was remarkable.

If you skip dinghy sailing, you'll be denying yourself a huge amount of fun ( capsizing is not mandatory, just learn the skills to avoid it and you'll have gone a long way to being a good sailor ) as well as crucial learning of boat handling skills.

 

[dt4134]

That's a hell of a palaver. Buying a small cheap boat, getting out there and doing it will be much faster and much more rewarding. This sailing lark really isn't terribly hard, or at least it needn't be. Buying a 36 footer and setting off for the Fastnet Rock may be a tad over ambitious - buy a Scaffie and going for a play isn't.

It doesn't need to be a palaver. Done right it should be a varied experience and fun. Learning from your mistakes is not faster than learning from other people. If it was people would learn everything by trial and error and there's be no need for schools etc.

The Captain F'ing Calamity who hit my boat and sailed off into the sunset probably learnt pretty much zero from his mistakes. He hadn't even learnt what springs were when he'd left the boat tied up and it was unfortunate I didn't see him go.

 

[Lakesailor]

I agree with Ubergeekian.
Forumites seem to revel in making a mountain out of a molehill.

The OP hasn't said he has any interest in dinghies, clubs, chartering, crewing.

He just asked what was a boat to get him started. Believe it or not lots of people start by getting a boat and feeling their way.

If he'd wanted the full-blown route he would perhaps have asked about courses and clubs etc.

Maybe he just wants to get a boat on the water and enjoy himself.
Some people get great enjoyment from doing things themselves.

I note on the topping lift thread on PBO it has become a technical exercise in stress engineering and modifying rigs.

How about making things easier rather than more difficult

 

[oceanman]

thanks guys, my plan is to take a sailing course at a club near me, they dont start their courses until early march so i have a while yet. i just seen the scaffie for sail at what i think is a good price, looks nice and i heard good things about them. i also heard that they have no keel as such! can someone explain how they stay upright and dont drift sideways? i should also mention that im in my late forties, i know thats lat to start sailing but i really just want a boat i can potter around in, something thats safe, easy to rig and can tow behind a car ect! i wont be getting into racing or anything like that.

 

[cimota]

I'm in the same situation but I'm nervous about just buying a boat, considering my only sailing experience has been 3 hours on a Contessa 29 two years ago. I've found it very hard to get into the local club - it just feels like a clique and I feel clueless when hanging out there and I guess I need to work on my knowledge and confidence before I join up.

So, rather than go the club route or the buy-a-bot-and-try, I've decided to try a Comp Crew course (after a reading an article in another mag) with AllAbroad. Sometime this year anyway.

 

[dt4134]

I agree with Ubergeekian.
Forumites seem to revel in making a mountain out of a molehill.

The OP hasn't said he has any interest in dinghies, clubs, chartering, crewing.

He just asked what was a boat to get him started. Believe it or not lots of people start by getting a boat and feeling their way.

If he'd wanted the full-blown route he would perhaps have asked about courses and clubs etc.

Maybe he just wants to get a boat on the water and enjoy himself.
Some people get great enjoyment from doing things themselves.

I note on the topping lift thread on PBO it has become a technical exercise in stress engineering and modifying rigs.

How about making things easier rather than more difficult

I realise it is the majority view on this forum that you just buy a boat and bounce your way around the marina or moorings until you work out how to sail, but I disagree with it. You're doing a beginner a disservice by telling him it is easy just come on in. If you look around you'll see loads of boats where the owner has had his first good day on the boat and is waiting for a buyer so he can have his second.

Far better to learn how to sail the cheap, sociable way by doing it on other people's boats then buy your own when you know the basics and have an idea of what sort of sailing you want to do on what sort of boat will suit you.

 

[Searush]

I agree with Ubergeekian.
Forumites seem to revel in making a mountain out of a molehill.

The OP hasn't said he has any interest in dinghies, clubs, chartering, crewing.

(snip)

With respect Phil, he mentioned a Scaffie in the OP, which gives a clue as to his thinking. Sure one can just have a go & work it out - it is what I did when I bought my first boat (a 14' fast cat in '67) but I had sailed a few times previously in the sea scouts & with a friend of my Dad's.

I see nowt wrong with a range of options & opinions being offered to the OP, it IS what the forum does best. He can then review the opinions & make up his own mind.

 

[Lakesailor]

Yep. And I expressed my opinion.
However in the nature of things, those with definite ideas on how things should be done come along and plan out someone's future for them.
Oddly when I Googled for a pic of a Scaffie I came up with one of my own pics of a couple of guys on the lake who get a huge amount of enjoyment from their Drascombes, just poodling about.
They may well be very experienced sailors, or may have learnt from their own experience.
My point is that few people on the forum suggest the slow, easy and low-tech options when these questions are posed.
It's usually the Full-Service, get training (must wear life jacket) range of options that are offered.

Going back to the OP, it seems that he is looking to ease himself into sailing in a gentle and relaxed manner.
My suggestion of a Seahawk is very similar to a Drascombe, but a bit more accommodation and probably lighter, probably a better sail and definitely cheaper.