Just how low can Euro boat prices go ...

[Andrew M]

It's clearly good news for anyone looking to buy that exchange rates have made boats in the EU comparatively cheaper, if , IF, you are happy to take on the time, effort and risk of buying from abroad. It's always been the same, it was the case a while back and exactly the same happens in cars, historically I've been over to Germany and bought 2 cars from dealers over there as the rate gave a car at a price below anything on sale in the UK. And as mentioned above it wasn't that long ago I was reading in MBY and MBM that all the decent UK boats were being bought and moved over the water into Europe, and no doubt that cycle will continue.

I don't think for one minute it shows any collapse in the market here, most folk want to buy a nice boat well priced, want to go and see it a few times etc etc. As posted above if you've got a nice example, well presented, sensibly priced and you work positively with any interested parties, you will sell. Over price and you just won't get physical viewings, t'internet has made all info available to everyone so you need to have a well considered sale offer.

 

[oldgit]

I wouldn't even respond to an offer like that, it just shows that the buyer is not serious. A boat gt priced right will sell quickly for near asking price, no one gives boats away they sell them. Talking to brokers I know things are very good at the moment and a lot of boats are being sold.

But suppose the boat you were trading up to was offered at that sort of reduction ....are you going to lose the boat you want ,simply by refusing to sell yours at a similar discount simply due to hurt feelings.
Surely the most important thing is purely the price to change boats ?

 

[diligaf]

I wouldn't even respond to an offer like that, it just shows that the buyer is not serious. A boat gt priced right will sell quickly for near asking price, no one gives boats away they sell them. Talking to brokers I know things are very good at the moment and a lot of boats are being sold.

At LAST some sanity!

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

To tell the truth, and taking away the £ strong trend, it has been stabilizing in the last year or so.
Saying it in more common words I think the market has bottomed out in 2014, as I see prices more stable and from 2015 forward I see a slow upward trend.
This might become a bubble in a couple of years for well conditioned boats of a quality.
One has to remember that not many new boats where built from 2010 till 2014, so if the market get some demand there is not much supply.
As usual this demand will favor less old, well maintained boats.

Returning about this Princess I think the more boats get old it depends more about condition and specification, and sometimes a price difference can become quite a stretch.

 

[Andrew M]

At LAST some sanity!

Must admit, I agree. I've just sold, as in on Tuesday, our boat and I would not have replied if anyone had put in daft offers, I'd have just written them off as messers. I know our boat was a lovely example of a good model, well maintained and well presented. I had her priced at a market competitive level and whilst we did negotiate to some degree if anyone had come in at silly levels it wouldn't have progressed. I guess there will always be different circumcstances surrounding each sale, some boats may be up and really need to be shifted, in which case the prices will obviously be lower to attract more buyers and get a quick sale, some models may not be so desireable etc, in fact what we've bought is a bit non-mainstream so that reflected in what she was available at.

 

[petem]

Would you accept £150k on a boat that you were selling for £250k?

Depends on how desperate i was. But a £200k offer is only 20% off. I'd certainly be cheekier than that.

 

[beejay190]

I wouldn't even respond to an offer like that, it just shows that the buyer is not serious. A boat gt priced right will sell quickly for near asking price, no one gives boats away they sell them. Talking to brokers I know things are very good at the moment and a lot of boats are being sold.

Failing to respond is IMHO the wrong approach. A polite reply costs nothing and may lead to an increased offer.

 

[crazy4557]

Failing to respond is IMHO the wrong approach. A polite reply costs nothing and may lead to an increased offer.

Agreed, a low offer is not necessarily an insult. I always go low to feel out the seller's circumstances and then negotiate upwards to an agreed middle point. Not bothering to reply to a lowball offer seems a wasted opportunity as negotiation is a two person activity.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'd start at £150k. I've never heard of a vendor being so insulted that he won't negotiate.

I've bought and sold quite a large number of boats (14 and counting) and as a seller, I would always treat any offer with respect providing I felt it was a serious offer. Obviously a low ball offer is disappointing but in many cases it is only a starting point. I would never be insulted by a low offer, just thank the prospective buyer for his offer and say, sorry, but I couldn't accept an offer that low. If the prospective buyer is really interested in your boat, he will come back with a higher offer and if he doesn't, well just move on.

The only exception to this is what some prospective buyers do in the Med and that is to put in a series of low offers on a number of boats even before viewing them, with the idea then of only viewing those boats for which the seller has indicated he might accept that low offer. To my mind that's not a serious buyer. A serious buyer is somebody who takes the trouble to view a boat first before putting in an offer, not the other way around

 

[oldgit]

A serious buyer is somebody who takes the trouble to view a boat first before putting in an offer, not the other way around

+100%

 

[beejay190]

So, how does one reply to the question:

" What is the lowest price you will accept ? "

 

[ari]

I don't think for one minute it shows any collapse in the market here, most folk want to buy a nice boat well priced, want to go and see it a few times etc etc. As posted above if you've got a nice example, well presented, sensibly priced and you work positively with any interested parties, you will sell. Over price and you just won't get physical viewings, t'internet has made all info available to everyone so you need to have a well considered sale offer.

But that is the problem. I agree with everything you say in your second sentence, but as has been frequently demonstrated on here, no one really knows what boats are worth and everyone is terrified of paying too much and/or wants a 'bargain'.

As long as the information is out there about lower priced boats abroad, it doesn't matter that Mr Buyer wants a nice easy UK deal on a boat he's visited three times, when it come to what he is willing to pay he WILL be influenced by the 'info available to everyone', and it is bound to affect what he is willing to pay for a UK boat.

 

[ari]

So, how does one reply to the question:

" What is the lowest price you will accept ? "

I would always reply 'the price I would like is the price I am asking. However if you wish to make an offer feel free, I may be open to sensible negotiation'.

Bottom line, the seller has played his card with his asking price. It's the prospective buyers turn now.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

So, how does one reply to the question:

" What is the lowest price you will accept ? "

A seller should be pleased if somebody asks that question because it allows the seller to set the agenda for the negotiation rather than the other way around and immediately puts the buyer at a psychological disadvantage. So, on a £250k boat, the seller might answer that question by saying, for example, £230k, and then that figure of £230k becomes a figure around which negotiations start. This is a far better position for the seller to be in than, for example, the buyer making a low ball offer of £150k and for negotiations to start from that figure. Don't forget that before any price negotiation begins, the buyer will have seen the boat and mentally decided to buy it so the only question then becomes at what price will he buy it so if the seller sets the starting price for negotiations, he has an advantage.

Btw, I don't think its a good idea to answer this question by saying the asking price. That shows that the seller is not going to be flexible and the buyer may walk away just because of that. In every successful negotiation, each side has to give something

 

[gjgm]

A seller should be pleased if somebody asks that question because it allows the seller to set the agenda for the negotiation rather than the other way around and immediately puts the buyer at a psychological disadvantage. So, on a £250k boat, the seller might answer that question by saying, for example, £230k, and then that figure of £230k becomes a figure around which negotiations start. This is a far better position for the seller to be in than, for example, the buyer making a low ball offer of £150k and for negotiations to start from that figure. Don't forget that before any price negotiation begins, the buyer will have seen the boat and mentally decided to buy it so the only question then becomes at what price will he buy it so if the seller sets the starting price for negotiations, he has an advantage.

Btw, I don't think its a good idea to answer this question by saying the asking price. That shows that the seller is not going to be flexible and the buyer may walk away just because of that. In every successful negotiation, each side has to give something

In most cases I would expect the buyer to be more active than the seller. Sure, the seller might have had a few chats and scanned a few ads, but the buyer may well have been over half a dozen boats, and will be balancing his preferred boat against the bill. OTOH, the buyer does not know the seller at all. The seller might be extremely happy to keep his boat at £230k, and there is nothing the seller can do about it.It is right here and right now. Sure the seller may only get 150k in a year's time, but so what? I agree, you need to get negotiations started and you need to keep them going. Either side getting upset/insulted etc is not taking things forward.It is also absolutely ok that no sale takes place. There is no obligation to agree.

 

[Drewster]

We need a more structured sales platform Henry has in the past had the idea to try and set up a price guide like the car world has gap or glasses perhaps one day this will happen and people will not be over optomistic with the asking price

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

We need a more structured sales platform Henry has in the past had the idea to try and set up a price guide like the car world has gap or glasses perhaps one day this will happen and people will not be over optomistic with the asking price

I believe that such a guide does already exist but it is available to brokers/dealers only and depends on input from brokers/dealers on selling prices not all of whom might be willing to divulge such information, especially those wishing to protect the credibility of the brand they represent. Unlike cars there are no boat auctions to check the actual prices people are willing to pay for them. With the best will in the world, there's no way that henryf could set up such a guide because he can't get the necessary information. In any case, boats are not like cars and there is no established market price for every model. In the end, a boat is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it at that particular time, in that particular place and in that particular condition and a guide isn't going to help that situation

 

[Imperial One]

Jrudge in his post 15 contains fact and a lot of common sense. As ever Deleted User post above is also bang on the money.
There is no doubt that the weak Euro is good for buying a boat overseas and conversely not so good for trying to sell one in Sterling at the moment.
We must remember that about 8 years ago the Euro was over 1.40 to the pound and then as we dipped deep into recession the Euro got stronger but now as the EU region is finding, the recession is hitting them harder as well.

FWIW in my experience (mainly overseas) buyers always tend to bid low, in the hope of getting away with it, and if the boat is right for them they often then increase their offer. It is now fast becoming the norm for many UK based buyers to do so. Let's be honest, offers on an advertised sale price is called negotiation but it is important to remember it has to be a 2 way thing. A buyer will want to pay as low a price as he can to secure his object of desire and a seller will always have a lowest price in his mind. Hopefully a deal can be struck. If not then both part company and keep looking/selling.

A boat is only worth what someone will pay for it and if it is properly presented, clean and well maintained, we are getting good offers and Yes, fair prices.
Last weekend we had someone take a 20 hour flight to se a boat that we had represented accurately. Before they travelled we had spoken on price and already refused their opening offer but negotiated a best price subject to seeing it. The boat is as promoted and they were very happy and the rest is now history. As a result we now have a client looking for 2 more much larger boats who will work with us because, in his own words, he can trust us.

You would be amazed at how many boats we see that, to be frank, are downright awful and make you wonder how anyone can invest in such a large capital item and then allow it to deteriorate so badly. As has been said elsewhere on the forum, such boats are a project for someone and at the right price can be a steal. That said, they are almost impossible to place easily!

We have seen an upsurge in sales to overseas clients in recent months and have many boats listed in Euros, Sterling and in US$ with boats from £50k to over €16million on our website.
One of the major issues with the Internet is where a vendor sees a similar model year boat to theirs advertised at a stupid price in some far off port. This is often in a country where their culture is to 'have a haggle'. This means the price they ask is always way above what it will actually sell for but of course our 'googler' will often simply accept that the advertised highest price is the right price for their boat, it can be tough to disabuse an owner who has seen so and so on the Net.

We recently sold a very nice 72 well known brand for 250k less than a smaller 54 foot model of the same year is still being advertised for. Another client acquired a 70 foot motoryacht in superb condition after a full refit and mechanical overhaul, for just over the equivalent of £150k. If with the benefit of hindsight he had waited 3 months, if not already sold elsewhere, it could have been 15 grand cheaper still.

One of my savvy owners has this morning taken £22.5k off his asking price to bring the boat more in line with EU based competition. You have to adapt to the market forces if you truly want to sell. An offer can always be politely refused and indeed it often is.

 

[Drewster]

It's no wounded that the market is imo (and the vast majority of people looking to buy ) is so depressed far to many brokers /sellers asking very unrealistic prices
The real question is how do we turn this arond and get confidence back into the market

 

[oldgit]

Haggling

Have no idea how things are transacted up in the more rarified end of the market but a starting low bid does appear to come as bit of a shock to some sellers down my end of the price bracket.
It is a useful gambit used by buyers to gain the upperhand during the negociations.
If you are told to shove it by the seller it is obvious they are going to move very little on the asking price and there is no point in continuing the conversation at that point , time to leave a phone number and leave.Seller can then either rip it up or pop it in his pocket.
Have on several occasions received phone calls months afterwards,usually to late by then of course.
It can prevent a lot of time wasting for the seller when the buyer is able to make plain his thinking and the seller can either rejig his price or say "no chance" on the spot.
What not to like ?