Jordan Series Drogue

[LASSALLE]

Good afternoon;
I know the most of you are many experiences on the high sea.
I look for some testimonies about the use of Jordan Series Drogue.
Thank you for your memories.
friendly;
JJ

 

[co256]

http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/pdf/droguecoastguardreport.pdf

Bonne chance JJ

 

[Poignard]

I have no personal experience of it but here is some information about how to make one

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/droguekit.pdf

 

[andlauer]

Trainard de Jordan

Bonjour Jean Jacques

Le sujet a été partiellement traité avec des liens :

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271874&highlight=sea+anchor

Et aussi sur le site de Roger Taylor:
http://www.thesimplesailor.com/articles.html
et dans ses livres.
Eric
PS : Improve your French

 

[Babylon]

Bonjour Jean Jacques

Le sujet a été partiellement traité avec des liens :

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271874&highlight=sea+anchor

Et aussi sur le site de Roger Taylor:
http://www.thesimplesailor.com/articles.html
et dans ses livres.
Eric
PS : Improve your French

Quoi?!

 

[andlauer]

coutoisie translation

Quoi?!

Courtoisie translation :
- My tailor is rich!
- John is in the kitchen.
Eric
PS : Roger Taylor is not my taylor.

 

[Babylon]

Courtoisie translation :
- My tailor is rich!
- John is in the kitchen.
Eric
PS : Roger Taylor is not my taylor.

very good!

 

[jesterchallenger]

As noted in the link elsewhere in this thread, I have used one and I think it's a good bit of kit. I've sold my boat, but kept the drogue for the new one (multihull) and wouldn't go to sea without it now. There are various different opinions on heavy weather tactics and whether to deploy drogues/sea anchors/lying ahull etc, all of which may be appropriate/inappropriate depending on local conditions (there's no definitive solution to bad weather other than to stay ashore!) but I've used the JSD and it worked as expected in the conditions I experienced.

 

[Gargleblaster]

http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/pdf/droguecoastguardreport.pdf

Bonne chance JJ

I found this report really interesting. They make the point that while we all have faced bad weather at some stage and have coped with it. There are waves out there that we haven't yet met.

One of my favourite or maybe least favourite books is Miles Smeeton's 'Once is Not Enough'. First off he is pitchpoled off Cape Horn, losing his mast and other damage goes into Chile to fix it. Comes out after several months and gets rolled and loses his mast again. And that was in a big boat.

My basic problem with the report is that they were creating waves to roll over models using boats rather than the wind. I find it is the wind that pushes my boat sideways and creates a slick that stops some of the waves crashing into me. So basically I think their study is flawed. But still interesting.

As Yogi Berra said:

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

 

[andlauer]

Once is enought

Bonjour
Interesting mistake the real title is "once is enough"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Is-Enough-Sailors-Classics/dp/0071414312
Anyway the experience is fantastic. First time it was a broach followed by the boat being rolled by the wave. The second was a dig in followed by a capsize toes over head.
The boat was heavy displacement.

more seriously
Under my experience the danger is not in the wind but in the waves.
They push up the boat speed and then throw it in a broach or into the previous wave. the effect is obvious on a heavy displacement boat because they can't really surf. A light displacement boat with a lot of buoyancy at stern and bow (Imoca racing boats are typical) may surf at almost the same speed as the comber and by the way escape the power. The issue then is that they become very unsteady longitudinally and need to be stabilized by the retraction of sander-boards.... very efficient autopilot (imoca) or hand steering (volvo ocean race).

The instant power in a storm comber is tremendous and to neglect the wind impact is an acceptable hypothesis. Especially as in huge seas with a reefed boat the sail is masked by the coming wave and the boat is under-sailed in the hole between two waves both by the speed and the mask of the coming wave.

More critical are the size of the muck-ups and the size of the waves ; but something like 20 years of real life "experiences", with real boats and real gales have almost validated the results.

Eric
PS: "Trust me I'm an engineer "

 

[PacketRat]

I have used one

I've got one of these and would much appreciate it if I could ask some questions.

Did you have a lot of trouble retrieving it? What was the wind strength at that time? What size is your boat? What was your rate of drift?

Cheers,
Robin.

 

[jesterchallenger]

Jordan Series drogue

Robin,
The boat was a Rustler 31 - displacement 5.7 tons. Wind strength was about F10 - my wind transducer had blown away, so I'm not quite sure, but boat speed through the water (not SOG measured by GPS, but speed through the water measured by the through-hull transducer) reached 14 knots a couple of times, so I thought it was a good moment to have a go with the JSD even thought the boat felt completely under control. Once deployed, speed through the water was reduced to 1.5 - 2 knots (under bare pole). It held the stern squarely into the approaching waves and prevented it from slewing round. The impact of the waves hitting the transom was a little disconcerting - water was squirting through the washboards hard enough to wet the main bulkhead 10 feet further forward - but everything felt reasonably under control.

The JSD that I have is actually in three pieces - a bridle with a long leader warp and then two more warps with droguelets attached. If the waves had built in size to a point where a little more forward speed might lessen this wave impact I guess it would be possible to set only one of the warps with droguelets, thus halving the drag and increasing your speed.

I used one of my sheet winches (Lewmar 43ST) to retrieve it. Because it's set with a bridle to each quarter, as you winch it in you have to hold the line with a strop (with a rolling hitch) so that you can release one side of the bridle before continuing to winch in. The more you retrieve, the easier it gets because you are progressively removing the droguelets from the water (unlike a sea anchor which remains fully set until you can collapse it). You have to watch these on the winch to make sure you don't get a snarl up and tear one, but other than that it's quite straightforward.

Chafe is something that needs careful preparation - the loads on the warps are high, so once chafe starts it will quickly cut through them.

When you first deploy it, you have to make sure that it's ready to run free and can't snag anything - hands, feet, etc etc!

Disadvantage? If you have limited sea room, then a 2 knot drag rate might not be acceptable. The only solution then would be a big parachute anchor I suppose.

Hope that helps.

 

[PacketRat]

Thanks JesterChallenger, that's exactly what I wanted to hear, especially the retrieval and rate of drift. I believe Roger lost an entire JD due to chafe.

I hadn't heard anyone say they managed to retrieve using a winch. That is good news. And the issue of sea room is what I had in mind when asking that question. Now I have the answer. As for chafe, I've got dedicated U-bolts at the transom corners, so that should be OK.

Excellent information, clearly stated. Much appreciated.

 

[andlauer]

Bonjour
In last Roger's book he describes a retrieval experience where he injured deeply his hands.
Since he added a retrieval line.
Eric

 

[Fascadale]

Hopefully this, as yet untried,system deals with the chaffing issue

 

[helixkimara]

Hopefully this, as yet untried,system deals with the chaffing issue

Thats great for a load that will stay directly behind. But your yacht may (will) slew some time then when the load comes on it will bend the steel plate to the side.

Trust me, I'm a sailor

 

[Fascadale]

Thats great for a load that will stay directly behind. But your yacht may (will) slew some time then when the load comes on it will bend the steel plate to the side.

Trust me, I'm a sailor

If the boat does slew will that not take the strain off one bridle and put it on the other?

 

[co256]

Perhaps that would depend on the thickness of the stainless plate but it is the method of attachment suggested by Don Jordan himself.

 

[Aeolus]

Haven't finished making mine yet so haven't tried it. I was thinking of having two lengths of chain running from the sheet cleats through fairleads that I have at either end of the transom. Then attach the rope bridle with shackles to the ends of the chain. Can anyone think of a reason why that wouldn't work?

 

[co256]

You need to be careful of the loads a JSD will impose, do not underestimate the forces involved!

For that reason, using deck cleats is not recommended, the stainless plates transfer the load directly to the hull canoe body.

Perhaps an engineer could explain this better?