Jonahs - myth or reality?

[Babylon]

I was recently mulling over that sad episode in Patrick O'Brien's Master & Commander (the film is best known, although I also remember it from when I read the whole series of novels) when the poor, slightly inept and unpopular but otherwise harmless midshipman, believing that he was 'responsible' for the ship's ill fortune at the time (playing hide-and-seek with the French off the coast of South America), took it upon himself to weigh his pockets with cannonballs and step overboard to his death. Whereafter the 'luck' of the ship changed.

We live in an apparently more rational era (well mostly so!), but I wonder whether there are indeed individuals who are otherwise benign but who's "energy" if you like is at odds with the rest of the crew, who would be better off without him or her on board?

Any views or anecdotes out there?

 

[Adios]

Its totally real that some people are the "unlucky" ones. I can think of 2 people growing up where if something was going to happen it would be to them. Really strikingly so. Hilariously of course. On a boat its not hard to think others would be scared of having them on board as if something was going to happen to that person they might all be effected by it. But on the other hand it was quite comforting knowing that if something was going to happen we had our misfortune lightening rod with us. Honestly the tales we have about this one guy Graham. More like a comedy mascot continually taking hits for the team rather than a bad omen. He knew it as well of course and it did put him off doing things in the end. Mostly stays safely in front of the TV now.

Wasn't the midshipman thing more of a social issue? Only going from the film. With his pretty singing voice not fitting in with the men and not being able to command respect of his subordinates. Can't remember much about it

 

[Babylon]

I should re-watch the film.. won't take as long as re-reading all the novels!!

Not boat-related but I do recall popping into the training workshop next door my own one to join the lads for lunch-break. It was a Monday and the whole place looked so much brighter than it had for a while, so I asked if they'd repainted it. "No" said Dave, a normally taciturn Yorkshireman, while unwrapping his cheese sandwich, "Nigel's gone!"

 

[prv]

I did once sail with a Crewman Calamity (he definitely hadn't reached Captain) for a week. His arrival on board was quite spectacular - within a couple of minutes he'd dropped his bag in the sea (fortunately it was of showerproof material and instantly recovered by someone else before the contents were too soaked), fallen into gap between the jetty and the boat, immersing himself to the waist (we were berthed stern to, and he got his elbows onto the swim-step before sinking deeper), fallen down the companionway, and hit his head on the lintel on the way into the forepeak.

I'll gloss over his sailing ability since it was his first time on a yacht and unfair to expect much, but on two separate occasions during the week he hung clothes up to dry on deck without securing them. Fortunately his borrowed oilskins floated, and were recovered when a local fisherman in his tender knocked on the hull to warn us they were drifting around the harbour. Most of his T-shirts and underwear weren't so lucky, though, and when they went the same way the following evening (apparently he hadn't learned) they sank to the bottom. In the clear Baltic water we could see them lying on the sand, and he spent a while dragging the dinghy grapnel back and forth trying to retrieve his pants - sadly to no avail.

Pete

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Don't mistake incompetence for some mystical curse. It's just incompetence.

 

[Rappey]

I had a job where I was replacing the upstairs windows of a shop front in a very busy portsmouth high street.
My van was parked on the road and the base of the ladder was in between the van tyre and kerb so it could not go anywhere.
Was shocked by the amount of people that chose to risk life and limb in the busy traffic rather than walk under a ladder that had more than enough room.
One idiot tried climbing over the ladder and nearly got a beating from my colleague who was shaken on the ladder at the time.
So yes ,some are very superstitious and willing to risk injury to avoid what is no more than superstition.
Isn't green boats and banana's on board meant to be bad luck ?

 

[Adios]

Don't mistake incompetence for some mystical curse. It's just incompetence.

With some people they are just clumsy through a lack of paying attention or trying its true. But the people I'm thinking of yes some of it could be put down as that but stuff definitely happens to them as well through no fault of their own. Not sure I'd call it a curse but it just seems they can't stay out of the way of misfortune. On the other hand some people just seem to float through a blessed life with nothing seeming to touch them.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

With some people they are just clumsy through a lack of paying attention or trying its true. But the people I'm thinking of yes some of it could be put down as that but stuff definitely happens to them as well through no fault of their own. Not sure I'd call it a curse but it just seems they can't stay out of the way of misfortune. On the other hand some people just seem to float through a blessed life with nothing seeming to touch them.

Those people who appear to float through a blessed life do the hard yards out of the publics view in my experience.
And a little edit about the clip. The character in question is the epitome of competence. He had reconnoitred the area and as soon as the surfing opportunity arose he was able to formulate a coherent strategy and motivate his team to achieve both the primary objective of inserting the team and the secondary objective of inspiring his men.

 

[Adios]

Those people who appear to float through a blessed life do the hard yards out of the publics view in my experience.

You might be right about that. I used to have a neighbour who I'd put down as one of the blessed life types and then one day he lets on his wife had been going for breast cancer treatment, both in their 40s. It just didn't show on him, he had a sunny disposition that rarely let any darkness out. I'm sure no one has an easy life.

And a little edit about the clip. The character in question is the epitome of competence. He had reconnoitred the area and as soon as the surfing opportunity arose he was able to formulate a coherent strategy and motivate his team to achieve both the primary objective of inserting the team and the secondary objective of inspiring his men.

and he's got used to being very lucky all the time

 

[Stemar]

Don't mistake incompetence for some mystical curse. It's just incompetence.

Yes, but some people have a special gift for it.

and he's got used to being very lucky all the time

And some people have a special gift for that, too. In most cases, I tend to call it forethought

 

[Gary Fox]

Yes, but some people have a special gift for it.


And some people have a special gift for that, too. In most cases, I tend to call it forethought

Yes, forethought and conscientiousness are mainly inherited traits, which can of course be strongly influenced during one's upbringing and life experience.
I think that many people are unaware of how conscientious they are, or not, compared to others. Or if they are self-reflective enough to realise it, a congenital lack of forethought may nevertheless be outside their ability to self-improve.
This can result in unexpected outcomes for both parties, without any blame neccessarily being attached.
I agree with the Jonah/accident-prone notion, (not in a superstitious way, more from the evo-psych POV); and it doesn't just apply to the psychological hothouse of a vessel's crew, but to life in general.
It's an interesting subject and thanks to the OP for raising the topic.

 

[Gary Fox]

I'm wondering if any modern sailing psychologists are thinking of writing a successor to Noble and Hogbin's 'The Mind of the Sailor'. I hope so, not because of any shortcomings in that brilliant work (which should be part of the RYA Syllabus for aspiring skippers) but there have been new developments, insights and lessons learned in the last few decades.

 

[Babylon]

Thanks for reminding me of the Noble and Hogbin book - I've hoiked mine down from the shelves and fancy re-reading it.

 

[BirvidikBob]

As with virtually everything in the real world, there’s no simple, straightforward answer. It’s a combination of factors, but the main one in most cases is statistical variation – random chance. Good luck is a matter of being in the right place, at the right time, in the right circumstances and bad luck is the converse. Of course, personal attributes can affect how frequently these combinations arise, and the severity of their consequences, but arise they will.

People aren’t born lucky (or unlucky, for that matter). It is only possible to determine someone’s overall ‘luckiness’ with hindsight. As a rough rule of thumb, luckiness (or its opposite) is the product of multiplying ‘how lucky’ by ‘number of lucky episodes’. There’s obviously a lot of wriggle room here for error and subjectivity.

In common with most phenomena, luck conforms, more or less, to a normal distribution curve (a bell curve). Most people are averagely lucky, and the numbers tail off into the rarified extremes of the phenomenally lucky in one direction and the phenomenally unlucky in the other. The odds against being that (un)lucky are worse than those against winning the eurolottery, but if enough people do it, then it will inevitably occur.

I’ll get me coat.

 

[LittleSister]

Most of his T-shirts and underwear weren't so lucky, though, and when they went the same way the following evening (apparently he hadn't learned) they sank to the bottom. In the clear Baltic water we could see them lying on the sand, and he spent a while dragging the dinghy grapnel back and forth trying to retrieve his pants - sadly to no avail.

I like to think that in centuries to come there will arise a seemingly ancient Viking saga elaborating the mystery of the alien underpants at the bottom of the sea. ?

 

[Quandary]

We had the opposite, a member of our crew who was always lucky, if we were becalmed, when he came on deck a faint breeze came with him, standing ashore with him after Whitehead Regatta he took a cheroot from his pocket put it in his mouth, lifted a discarded disposable lighter lying on the ground nearby and lit it, we all knew it would light. At the end of WHYW one year we were in Croabh, changing sails for the journey home, a returning charter yacht came in, handed him a bag with half a dozen full bottles of spirits before heading for their cars.
It didnt last for ever though, a brain tumour got him, looking back his luck was a lot worse than most of us.

 

[Adios]

People aren’t born lucky (or unlucky, for that matter).

@Rappey might beg to differ. Utterly immune to seasickness and never ill:

I've never really been ill. The only times I've needed to seek medical help is through an injury, usually self inflicted.
I was around 5 yrs old and next doors kid had measles. My parents sent me round there and assume that was so I would catch it whilst young . I never did. Chicken pox is the only thing I've had and I was so young I can't remember it. Not had a cold for as long as I can remember.
Playing it safe with covid though !
Experienced a glider being put through what felt like some pretty impressive g forces and loved every minute of it.
I think one day I will just keel over and game over ?

 

[Adios]

We had the opposite, a member of our crew who was always lucky, if we were becalmed, when he came on deck a faint breeze came with him, standing ashore with him after Whitehead Regatta he took a cheroot from his pocket put it in his mouth, lifted a discarded disposable lighter lying on the ground nearby and lit it, we all knew it would light. At the end of WHYW one year we were in Croabh, changing sails for the journey home, a returning charter yacht came in, handed him a bag with half a dozen full bottles of spirits before heading for their cars.
It didnt last for ever though, a brain tumour got him, looking back his luck was a lot worse than most of us.

Maybe all the good fortune was compensation for the end. All religion's texts would agree that was possible, the pre-destination element. It worries me a little as I tend to be one where good fortune falls at my feet more often than not. Sometimes freakish coincidences that I'd be scared to tell anyone expecting to be called a liar. Maybe we all get those moments though? I tend to believe in "fortune favours the brave". Good things can only happen if we leave our sofa and throw ourselves into the world.

 

[johnalison]

A club member is known as Captain Calamity because of the trail of destruction he has left behind him over many years. I'm pretty sure that luck has no part to play in it. His own boat managed to dislodge itself from the scrubbing posts when a motorboat passed too fast, leaving an interesting hole in its side..

 

[Stemar]

A club member is known as Captain Calamity because of the trail of destruction he has left behind him over many years. I'm pretty sure that luck has no part to play in it. His own boat managed to dislodge itself from the scrubbing posts when a motorboat passed too fast, leaving an interesting hole in its side..

A lot of the time, we make our own luck, good or bad. If my boat were dislodged by a passing mobo, I'd reckon I'd made a pig's ear out of tying her on. I certainly wouldn't put it down to luck. Likewise, if a storm caused my boat to break her mooring, I'd be wishing I'd maintained it properly - unless the clubhouse is now the other side of the harbour, when I'd figure there wasn't a lot I could have done