Joining Chain

If the welding is well done?? why not?? but as the links are galvanised, it will be quite difficult to make a nice weld around the link..

Before using such a welded chain, I would like to be perfectly sure that the resistance of the chain is not too much reduced..

And again, please, never use "C" links...
 
as it would alter the swl I would ..... there are a variety of chain connectors on the market which wont weaken the chain
 
there are many manufacturers who supply chandlers with this stuff - put in 'anchor chain connectors' into google and look at the selection. for my money the connectors should all be about the same quality but if you want recent experience on buying a link I am sure someone on this forum will be able to recount an anecdote or two
 
all the split ring connectors I have seen (those with rivets) have swl about half that of chain: a 10mm chain has a swl of roughly 2500kg and a 10mm connector of 1200kg

if anyone can indicate a connector with better mechanical characteristics I would be interested

thanks
 
[ QUOTE ]
Would anyone advise against getting two length of chain welded together? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]I am sure a few uneducated, or those that think they know it all, would advise against welding chain together but ask yourself a question - how is chain made? - answer by welding the links! So if the manufacturer welds the links it is feasible to have the links welded together. Any trace of zinc will have to be removed from the weld area and a suitable filler used such as ER70S-G or better ER80S-G or even ER100S-G if you can source them.
If you are having links welded do have them done "professionally" NOT by a "pontoon" welder.

BTW there are NO DIY joining links (that I am aware off) that will have the same strength as the original links
----------
hammer.thumb.gif
“Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity”
Skype id:cliffillupo
 
Stainless Steel Chain Link, 3/8"
Perfectly matched chain link to extend chain lengths.
Same braking load as chain.
Made of Stainless Steel.
Size: 47x35mm
Designed for chains up to 10mm-3/8".


found in less than 1 minute
 
for those not lucky enough to have watched chain being made, the white hot steel rod is bent around the standing link, the stud and link are then welded whilst white/red hot, the link is allowed to cool, then heated again and allowed to cool over several days to anneal

hope this sheds some light on chain making on the 'uneducated'

oh - chain link connectors are available which do not markedly alter the breaking strain of the chain
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am sure a few uneducated, or those that think they know it all, would advise against welding chain together but ask yourself a question - how is chain made?

[/ QUOTE ]-

Hi Cliff,

then you got the answer..

"for those not lucky enough to have watched chain being made, the white hot steel rod is bent around the standing link, the stud and link are then welded whilst white/red hot, the link is allowed to cool, then heated again and allowed to cool over several days to anneal - hope this sheds some light on chain making on the 'uneducated'"

No need to "those that think they know it all" to answer.. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
What Cliff said was it was quite feasible to weld a link to join chain as that is how it is made. He claimed no more. Are you saying it is impossible to weld links which would be an interesting claim to make, because as Cliff (and indeed the poster you quote) says, that is how chain is made.

In any event, as I have pointed out before, the chain is the strongest part, by at least a factor of 2, of the cable structure. For example, shackles, used by most everyone in making up an anchor/cable combination is much weaker than the chain. Therefore, if one welds a link (properly as Cliff says) and even if loss of strength is involved, it is unlikely to be important in the overall integrity of the cable/anchor system.

I am sure you will disagree, you seem to happily stray from engineering and established professional practises to support your well known aversion to chain.

John
 
No Ship_cat, I never say it is impossible to weld links .. I say:

you can weld links, but YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE that the resistance is not reduced..

Chains are not made by welding electricaly each link.. and I agree with Landaftaf, the stud and link are welded whilst white/red hot, during the manufacturing process..

Then as you said.. , sorry, but I have to disagree with you when you say:
"the chain is the strongest part, by at least a factor of 2, of the cable structure. For example, shackles, used by most everyone in making up an anchor/cable combination is much weaker than the chain. "

You just need to choose the right shackle :0) :
First, always use one size bigger than the chain: I.E. 12 mm shackle for 10 mm chain

- On the Plastimo catalogue, the 10 mm chain has a breaking load of 5000 kg and a working load of 2500 Kg (ref: 16499)
- the shackle ref 29754-12 mm has a breaking load of 5500 kg and a working load of 2300 kg
- the shackle ref 25686-12mm has a breaking load of 9100 Kg and a working load of 3900 kg
(these are only a few precise examples..)

Then, if on your own boat "the chain is the strongest part, by at least a factor of 2, of the cable structure." I will strongly suggest you to change all your shackles and to replace them by Plastimo shackle ref: 25686.. Then your shackle will be the strongest part, by at least a factor of 2, of the cable structure"... :0)

Then also, if your link is not properly welded, you can induce a weak point and if a loss of strength is involved, it is very important in the overall integrity of the cable/anchor system. :0)

And I don't have any aversion to chain. Chain is the best product to avoid shaffing on the sea bottom.. but, very importantly, you should also have a kind of elasticity in your anchoring rode.. and elasticity is given by Polyamide rope..

For me, the best anchoring rode is about twice the lenght of the boat in chain and then Nylon rope directly spliced on the chain..
http://www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html

And this is well demontrated on the Alain Fraysse's web page:
http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/rode_b.htm

Do you still disagree with me??
 
Regardless of what Plastimo's catalogue claims, you will find that an individually tested best quality 12 mm green pin shackle conforming to EN 13889 and US Fed. Spec. RR-C-271 Type IVB Class 2, Grade A will have a working load limit of less than 1,500 kg.

So you will see my comments are correct, unless you prefer to think Plastimo's shackles have working load limits getting on for twice what is claimed for the very best shackles provided by others.

If you doubt me, I suggest that you do a Google on green pin shackles or on the US Fed. Spec. I mention (that is the standard most frequently referred to for individually tested shackles). As only one of many such leads, Van Beest BV in Europe list such shackles and theirs are also DNV type approved - they have a web site with their catalogue on it. You will see in that that 13mm shackles green pin shackles typically have working load limits of around 1,500kg.

John
 
You are certainly fully RIGHT about "individually tested best quality 12 mm green pin shackle conforming to EN 13889 and US Fed. Spec. RR-C-271 Type IVB Class 2, Grade A with a working load limit of less than 1,500 kg."...


But who will oblige you to use these products??

Please have also a look at the Wichard catalogue.. and you will find the same characteristics than the ones of the Plastimo's shackles..

And Wichard is a very well known company selling shackle all over the world..

But if you persist of using low quality products, just to proove that I'm wrong.. this is YOUR problem.. :0)..
 
I have great difficulty in accepting that the commercial shackles you mention are superior to (or even can match) green pin shackles individually tested for lifting application purposes and would not rely on it being so myself. I think many others would feel the same. For you to refer to such shackles as being of low quality does not do your claimed expertise any favours at all.

I have no desire nor need to argue the matter with you but just at least open the minds of other forumites that what you have said may not be as it may seem. That is now done, I will leave others to make their own decisions on the matter.

John
 
this time Ships_cat, I fully agree with you...

I have no benefit in proving that I'm right or not.. and like you, I will at least open the minds of others about possible problems with some practices like a "non professional" welding of a chain link or the use of a nice looking but weak "C" link.. or some anchor/chain connectors...

This is for the same reasons that, I'm doing my best to promote the Chain/rope anchor rode, just because I'm really convince that it is the best mean to attach an anchor to a boat..

I appreciate to "discuss" with people like you, as it helps to go more deeper into a subject..

Many thanks for answering..

Alain
 
thank you for the examples


I am a bit reticent though to insert a stainless steel fitting in contact to galvanised chain, I may sail in particularly conductive waters but found the last chain link connected to a stainless shackle to be severely corroded, with much more thickness being eroded than that usually caused by rusting

as my chain is ageing, in the end I think I will buy a new full length -.<)
 
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