JOG eligibility

[TallBuoy]

I know there are a couple of JOG committee members around here, so hope they will be able to clarify a couple of questions for me.

From the website: JOG is a yacht club with a difference. Established in 1950 to allow smaller yachts to compete offshore, it organises highly competitive races for IRC rated yachts.

I can't find a definition of smaller yachts, so assume that it is purely based on IRC Rating, is this correct ?

In addition, the IRC classes are shown as
3 1.037 to 1.200 TCC.
4 0.990 to 1.036 TCC.
5 0.935 to 0.989 TCC.
6 0.934 TCC and below.

There are some pretty serious boats in the RORC Series class one with TCC's less than 1.200, which couldn't be considered as smaller yachts.

I feel like I must be missing something!

All clarification gratefully received.

 

[flaming]

I know there are a couple of JOG committee members around here, so hope they will be able to clarify a couple of questions for me.

From the website: JOG is a yacht club with a difference. Established in 1950 to allow smaller yachts to compete offshore, it organises highly competitive races for IRC rated yachts.

I can't find a definition of smaller yachts, so assume that it is purely based on IRC Rating, is this correct ?

In addition, the IRC classes are shown as
3 1.037 to 1.200 TCC.
4 0.990 to 1.036 TCC.
5 0.935 to 0.989 TCC.
6 0.934 TCC and below.

There are some pretty serious boats in the RORC Series class one with TCC's less than 1.200, which couldn't be considered as smaller yachts.

I feel like I must be missing something!

All clarification gratefully received.

As I understand it (and those more closely associated with JOG feel free to correct me...) but whilst JOG did indeed originally start out because smaller boats were not eligible to compete in RORC racing, it has since expanded to include people who own boats that would fit nicely into the RORC fleet if they were so inclined but who prefer the JOG ethos of racing to places and enjoying the destination as much as the racing, rather than spending 24-36 hours going round marks in the channel and then finishing in the same place that you started. Which is a large proportion of the RORC calendar.

 

[Muddy32]

As I understand it (and those more closely associated with JOG feel free to correct me...) but whilst JOG did indeed originally start out because smaller boats were not eligible to compete in RORC racing, it has since expanded to include people who own boats that would fit nicely into the RORC fleet if they were so inclined but who prefer the JOG ethos of racing to places and enjoying the destination as much as the racing, rather than spending 24-36 hours going round marks in the channel and then finishing in the same place that you started. Which is a large proportion of the RORC calendar.

+1

 

[Racecruiser]

Hi Tallbuoy

Flaming has the background about right and you have the IRC class splits right. Inshore races are Category 4 requirement and offshore Cat 3 - the JOG website has all the info you need and you can contact the secretary with any queries and his contact details are there too.

What are you sailing?

 

[JumbleDuck]

As I understand it (and those more closely associated with JOG feel free to correct me...) but whilst JOG did indeed originally start out because smaller boats were not eligible to compete in RORC racing, it has since expanded to include people who own boats that would fit nicely into the RORC fleet if they were so inclined but who prefer the JOG ethos of racing to places and enjoying the destination as much as the racing, rather than spending 24-36 hours going round marks in the channel and then finishing in the same place that you started. Which is a large proportion of the RORC calendar.

Can smaller boats still compete in JOG or do the rules exclude them? I used to have a Westerly Jouster which was designed as their JOG boat but at 21' and a ton I wonder if she'd be allowed nowadays. How about Sopranino or the Barchettas derived from her?

 

[flaming]

Can smaller boats still compete in JOG or do the rules exclude them? I used to have a Westerly Jouster which was designed as their JOG boat but at 21' and a ton I wonder if she'd be allowed nowadays. How about Sopranino or the Barchettas derived from her?

The only other requirements are the safety rules, so providing that the small boat met them I cannot see anything that would prevent a 21 foot boat from entering. These include a minimum SSS (or STIX) value which is different for inshore and offshore races.

 

[Keen_Ed]

RORC used to have a minimum LWL of 24'. Minimum is now an IRC TCC of 0.850.

 

[PeterV]

For a cross channel race, ISAF Cat 3 requires a design category or minimum stability figure as far as I can tell, and these are specifically excluded for any boat below 1500kg displacement. This would seem to exclude any of the original JOG boats from competing in JOG races except the inshore ones. Therefore it seems to me that the current JOG class is pretty irrelevant since it was set up to prove that small boats could race safely offshore. Despite all the modern advances in safety it seems this is no longer the case.
(I would be pleased if someone could show me I'm wrong)

 

[Racecruiser]

For a cross channel race, ISAF Cat 3 requires a design category or minimum stability figure as far as I can tell, and these are specifically excluded for any boat below 1500kg displacement. This would seem to exclude any of the original JOG boats from competing in JOG races except the inshore ones. Therefore it seems to me that the current JOG class is pretty irrelevant since it was set up to prove that small boats could race safely offshore. Despite all the modern advances in safety it seems this is no longer the case.
(I would be pleased if someone could show me I'm wrong)

Well we regularly get what are now called small boats inshore (coastal) particularly and offshore but the requirement is and should be there to comply with Cat 4 and Cat 3 regs. EG Impala, Contessa 26, Oyster 26 and I recall Sonatas although not currently.

There is no rating lower limit for class 6 so if you have an IRC rating, comply with the regs and want to have a go please come and join in. Fortunately the numbers we get suggest 'pretty irrelevant' doesn't apply.

Sopranino is in the Cowes Small Boat Museum and if you see her you will probably gasp at how she was sailed transatlantic by Patrick Elam and Colin Mudie - I don't think she would comply today. More here: http://www.jog.org.uk/JOG_history.aspx

 

[TallBuoy]

Apologies for my lack of response - been boating for 3 days!

Thanks for the info, the reason I asked the question was actually for Project Scaramouche which is a 45' German Frers 2-tonner, with a Rating of 1.025. It has taken 2 years to get 8 students up to sufficient competence and confidence to do the Fastnet, which has been a massive amount of work for lots of other people. Now there are discussions about where to go next - another 2-year campaign?

Ive been thinking that JOG events are an easier option for all concerned, especially for the greater number of students who could become involved.

 

[flaming]

Apologies for my lack of response - been boating for 3 days!

Thanks for the info, the reason I asked the question was actually for Project Scaramouche which is a 45' German Frers 2-tonner, with a Rating of 1.025. It has taken 2 years to get 8 students up to sufficient competence and confidence to do the Fastnet, which has been a massive amount of work for lots of other people. Now there are discussions about where to go next - another 2-year campaign?

Ive been thinking that JOG events are an easier option for all concerned, especially for the greater number of students who could become involved.

Sounds like a great option. Scaramouche would fit very well into the JOG fleet, in fact it wouldn't surprise me at all if you weren't actually fairly competitive. Plus of course there are the inshore races to build confidence in new crew.

 

[Judders]

Scaramouche would be a perfect fit for JOG and I for one would love to have you all along.

That said you might want to watch out for the drinking culture at the host destination!

 

[PeterV]

So the JOG was set up for boats of 16 to 20'lwl which weren't able to race offshore and now a 45' yacht is considered ideal. Where then is the racing for small yachts offshore, since the IRC rules prevent them.

 

[Judders]

The only sticking point I can see is with sponsorship as it is strictly forbidden in JOG.

So the JOG was set up for boats of 16 to 20'lwl which weren't able to race offshore and now a 45' yacht is considered ideal. Where then is the racing for small yachts offshore, since the IRC rules prevent them.

JOG, like other clubs, is not kept exactly as it was on the day of it's formation. The principals remain but the rules have developed with time and the development of the sport.

I don't think it's IRC that prevents small boats racing but the ISAF (now World Sailing?) categorisation. Personally I think they are too restrictive but to suggest that generally as a sport we should not learn lessons from accidents and incidents because we would rather stick to our founding rule book is probably not going to be a widely held belief.

I personally want to, at some point, do a JOG season under the original rules. It is possible to get a boat that complies to also comply with Cat3. Doubtless when I do so, someone will point out that doing so in a plastic boat with a GPS is unfaithful.

 

[Racecruiser]

Apologies for my lack of response - been boating for 3 days!

Thanks for the info, the reason I asked the question was actually for Project Scaramouche which is a 45' German Frers 2-tonner, with a Rating of 1.025. It has taken 2 years to get 8 students up to sufficient competence and confidence to do the Fastnet, which has been a massive amount of work for lots of other people. Now there are discussions about where to go next - another 2-year campaign?

Ive been thinking that JOG events are an easier option for all concerned, especially for the greater number of students who could become involved.

Supplementary to Judders last post - 1.025 would put you in class 4 and if you've done the Fastnet (many congratulations) then I'm sure there is no problem with Category compliance. Suggest take a look around the JOG site for the entry requirements and contact Nick our secretary with any queries. Next event is Cowes-Poole via St Cats and Poole-Cowes on Sat 9/9 and Sun 10/9 and entry should be in by close of Monday before the race. As of today there are 45 entries across the 4 classes.

 

[Racecruiser]

So the JOG was set up for boats of 16 to 20'lwl which weren't able to race offshore and now a 45' yacht is considered ideal. Where then is the racing for small yachts offshore, since the IRC rules prevent them.

Ideal for the relevant class (4) - I refer you to my previous post regarding smaller boat participation in class 6.

 

[Beelzebub]

So the JOG was set up for boats of 16 to 20'lwl which weren't able to race offshore and now a 45' yacht is considered ideal. Where then is the racing for small yachts offshore, since the IRC rules prevent them.

Many years ago (in the 70's), I used to race in a Waarschipp called Warlord and we had no problem doing the JOG Cowes-Dinard, Cowes-Guernsey etc. Polliwog was an extremely successful sister-ship doing these races. Probably wouldn't be allowed now.

 

[TallBuoy]

Sorry to be so late coming back to this - been sailing most of the month!

It would be great to get Scaramouch involved, because the range of races (some local some offshore) will allow participation by more students. Sponsorship is a stumbling block because without the support of Pioneer Underwriters the whole project was at risk, and that involves carrying their name on the boat, sail and waterproof clothing.

I can assure you that the post race drinking culture is not a problem for the adults that are involved !!

 

[Fox Morgan]

I was told that under no circumstances could I have any sponsorship logos or advertising on my boat. Even if it's for charitable purposes. (I first enquired about JOG while I was prepping my boat for a big charity event and wanted to get some extra competitive miles in)
You can cover up the logos on your boat with blank stickers and I was told this would be acceptable.

I find the whole thing a bit of a put-off really, no sponsorship logos, corinthain spirit and all that which is fair enough, but then there's out and out racing boats with pots of money thrown at them via companies owning the boats and making them beyond the reach of most regular folks who work full time and do the sailing as and when they can afford it. I want to race with the JOG more, there's some really great boats in the fleet of racers, but there's some proper unfeasibly monied up boats too that really put me off. I'd like to see an option for charitable boats to take part in JOG, logos and all which would be at the discretion of the race committee.

 

[flaming]

I'm intrigued.

Which JOG boats are owned by companies? Having raced in that fleet all season I can't think of one that's obviously owned through a company.