Jib inhaulers - advice on tirm?

[Lucky Duck]

Could anybody offer advice on these or point me in the direction of an online guide?

My current default setting of the 'coachroof curve' until the boat starts to become overpowered seems to have been rather slow on a couple of occassions last week so I am keen to learn where I am making mistakes!

 

[lpdsn]

Could anybody offer advice on these or point me in the direction of an online guide?

My current default setting of the 'coachroof curve' until the boat starts to become overpowered seems to have been rather slow on a couple of occassions last week so I am keen to learn where I am making mistakes!

Are you talking about where the genny cars are on athwartship tracks on the side decks, with inhaulers and outhaulers (a.k.a. in****ers and out****ers)?

Still learning, but generally in for close-hauled in all wind speeds (if overpowered do a headsail change), with letting them out as you come off the wind. Easing them when overpowered might be a temporary emergency measure but you'll be losing height all the while.

And if anyone knows any better, I'd appreciate their advice myself.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Standard track and cars but the jib sheets go through Antel 'low friction' rings which then bring the sheet towards the centreline.

Single (through deck) furling 106% jib as I don't have the luxury of multiple jibs

 

[lpdsn]

Standard track and cars but the jib sheets go through Antel 'low friction' rings which then bring the sheet towards the centreline.

Single (through deck) furling 106% jib as I don't have the luxury of multiple jibs

Not sure I understand.

Does that mean you're using rings for'd of the car position to bring the clew further inboard? Is that an as designed arrangement? Big danger there is that the designer will have matched lift from the rig to the lift from the keel, rudder and hull, simply bringing the jib clew inboard further than the designer allowed for will likely slow you down. It's likely to increase heeling too from the extra curvature and drag in the jib.

The common barber hauler arrangement pulling the clew down towards the rail and tightening the leech is different as that increases jib efficiency when reaching.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Arrangement as below, sail and boat design should be fine with this

 

[Kerenza]

Could anybody offer advice on these or point me in the direction of an online guide?

My current default setting of the 'coachroof curve' until the boat starts to become overpowered seems to have been rather slow on a couple of occassions last week so I am keen to learn where I am making mistakes!

I found this site useful

http://www.uksailmakers.com/Gaining-Extra-Height-with-Inhaulers.html

Definitely useful, but take quite a lot of tweaking to get the most from them.

 

[lpdsn]

Arrangement as below, sail and boat design should be fine with this

You're not close hauled there.

The main thing you want to do when reaching like that is to cut excessive twist to stop the top part of the jib losing power. I'd have to be convinced that those inhaulers give you more than you get from pulling the cars forward. You'd have to look at the sail shape carefully to see where you're gaining. I reckon a barber hauler would give you more when reaching by allowing you to reduce twist and tighten the leech without bringing the clew inboard so much.

Anyway, assuming someone thinks they'll give you an advantage, try getting the sailmaker who sold you the sails to come out and give you a demo.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I found this site useful

http://www.uksailmakers.com/Gaining-Extra-Height-with-Inhaulers.html

Definitely useful, but take quite a lot of tweaking to get the most from them.

Thanks, reading that I have a fair idea of what I was doing wrong

You're not close hauled there.

The main thing you want to do when reaching like that is to cut excessive twist to stop the top part of the jib losing power. I'd have to be convinced that those inhaulers give you more than you get from pulling the cars forward. You'd have to look at the sail shape carefully to see where you're gaining. I reckon a barber hauler would give you more when reaching by allowing you to reduce twist and tighten the leech without bringing the clew inboard so much.

Anyway, assuming someone thinks they'll give you an advantage, try getting the sailmaker who sold you the sails to come out and give you a demo.

Indeed, I thought it was a better photo for showing the arrangements. The sailmaker was on board but as it was blowing 20 to 25 knots true there was only so much we could do. He will be coming back down when there is a bit less wind.

 

[flaming]

In cruiser racers that have "standard" behaviour, so not stupidly narrow chord keels etc then in reality the Jib Inhauler can be thought of as a tool to keep the angle of attack of the Jib, and the size of the slot, in "upwind" mode, whilst allowing the sheet to be eased in lighter winds to give more draft and therefore more power.
It's not really an ideal arrangement, as it's super fiddly and any adjustment of inhauler almost always needs a car adjustment to go with it, due to the geometry. However in light winds the effects can be pretty astounding. Bloody tricky things that I'm still not sure I fully understand though.

In practice on your boat (and on the Elan) once we're powered up and starting to think about depowering tools such as cunninham, backstay etc, the inhaulers are just off and the standard sheeting angle is being used. It's really a tool for the less than 12 knot winds.

 

[bbg]

And I would say it is more important to have out haulers than inhaulers, particularly on jibs with a high aspect ratio (tall and skinny). As soon as you crack off just a bit and ease the sheet, the top of the sail twists off completely.

When you do that, if you have a way to lead the sheeting angle outboard you can maintain the proper twist in the sail.

 

[Mark Taylor]

Doers anyone know what purchase I need for an in-hauler for the #3 blade jib on a 3/4 tonner? I'm thinking of a 4:1 and would also like some idea about the loads i should be assuming for the blocks.

Thanks in anticipation!

 

[Woodlouse]

Doers anyone know what purchase I need for an in-hauler for the #3 blade jib on a 3/4 tonner? I'm thinking of a 4:1 and would also like some idea about the loads i should be assuming for the blocks.

Thanks in anticipation!

2:1 or 3:1 would probably do, it won't require as much force as pulling in the sheet. As for loads, since you'll want at least 10mm line just for the comfort factor of hauling them, pretty much any block big enough to take the line should also be strong enough to take it.

 

[lw395]

Doers anyone know what purchase I need for an in-hauler for the #3 blade jib on a 3/4 tonner? I'm thinking of a 4:1 and would also like some idea about the loads i should be assuming for the blocks.

Thanks in anticipation!

Depends entirely on the angle you deflect the sheet through, and the tension in the sheet.
If you are only deflecting it a few degrees, very little force.
30 degrees, half the sheet load.
It all needs to be strong enough to handle big gusts, although stretching in big gusts might be a good thing?

 

[Kerenza]

I have low friction rings for the sheets to pass through on the end of 6mm dyneema core, turned on the coachroof down to 4:1 blocks for the 4mm control lines running parallel with the car haulers.

 

[Mark Taylor]

Thanks for all the responses......mast going back in this weekend so time to get the sails on and see what angles work!

regards

Mark

 

[simonfe]

Hi, I would be very interested to know how you are getting on using in-haulers, we have recently changed from Genoa to Jib (somewhere about 105% or 110%) and have seen huge improvements since fitting in-haulers, at times sheeting as much as 200mm closer than the existing track would allow.

regards
Simon

 

[Lucky Duck]

We seem to have got the hang of them now - although I am sure many on here would do better - and are getting respectable boats speed down to around 4 knots true.

 

[Clive]

We seem to have got the hang of them now - although I am sure many on here would do better - and are getting respectable boats speed down to around 4 knots true.

The jib cars fore/aft control the twist, the tell tails will indecate if you have too much or too littke twist, inner upper breakes first move car foreward, lower breaks first move back.

The in-haulers controle the air flow angle, too far in and the main will back wind, too far out and you loose power and pionting. in gerenal the high the wind the bigger the bap required between the main and jib.

so in 8-12 knts you shou be looking for the main leech tell-tails to be just breaking 10-20% of the time. probablet the boom will be just above the centrte line and the top battern just below, wnd teh leech of the jib pointing just above the a line parell to the centre line of the boat. as the wind increases ease the mainsail traveller and the in-haulers, then adjust for twist in both main and jib,.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Having just read the article linked earlier in the thread, am I the only one having difficulty with the opening statement: "For decades, most top racing boats had great big overlapping headsails, which develop a lot of power as the overlap of the main by the genoa slows the airflow between the two sails. "?

Pretty sure Mr Bernoulli had a different take on things!

 

[simonfe]

Interesting, Google "Arvel Gentry"...

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/how_sails_really_work.pdf