Jester in a First 211?

[antcollins]

Evening All,

I was wondering what the collective view of a Beneteau First 211 doing the Jester Challenge?

Good
1. Unsinkable
2. Fairly fast
3. Sort of mini transat shape.
4. Cheap(ish)

Bad

1. Have to sail 'um to make 'um go - so hard work.
2. Open transom can ship water downwind (But east/west's not a downwind trip)


Just a thought experiment....but you never know.

 

[Gargleblaster]

One of the issues that the Jester Challenge is trying to contend with is that it is not the quality of the boat that should be judged before crossing oceans but the quality of the skipper. After all people have successfully taken Wayfarers and other open boats out onto the oceans and survived and had very successful voyages. I read a book last year about all the small boats that have attempted the Atlantic single handed. When they get as small as 5 feet I worry about sleeping room and speed through the water.

My only concern with many of the newer French designs is ballast ratio. Having been knocked down twice by waves in the Atlantic with a 40% ballast ratio and a 10 feet beam in my UFO27 it is a factor to take into account. The theory is as I understand it that you need a wave height greater than 3 times to put you on your beams end and any greater than that is how far your mast will go into the water. The ballast ratio will allow you to come back up again. It is only an impression but the first time I went down which was well below the horizontal the boat seemed to come up faster than it went down.

I wouldn't worry about your open transom so much it also helps you shed water when you are pooped, or even when the waves are breaking over your side which seems to be a very common occurrence for me. So with a closed ended transom I watch and listen a lot to my cockpit drains making hard work of shedding water. You mention that the Jester Challenge is primarily an upwind race which is true but you also have to bring the boat back and sometimes the wind can be on your stern. The first time I was knocked down I was heading south west under bare poles in an F10 Northeasterly about 200 miles north east of Corvu in the Azores. Basically I was sitting on top of the low which was brilliant until I got to the north western quadrant of the storm.

 

[helixkimara]

From my little experience I agree with John. The 211 looks a great boat to "make good" for the ocean but its "The Skipper" and preparation thats important. Assume you will get knocked down or rolled. Make sure you and the boat will handle that. One point I noticed from the 211 bumf was a windy down keel., urh !. That has to be very strong .
"unsinkable" like that.
Regards

 

[Gargleblaster]

From my little experience I agree with John. The 211 looks a great boat to "make good" for the ocean but its "The Skipper" and preparation thats important. Assume you will get knocked down or rolled. Make sure you and the boat will handle that. One point I noticed from the 211 bumf was a windy down keel., urh !. That has to be very strong .
"unsinkable" like that.
Regards

Nothing wrong with a wind down keel as long as the keel box is strong enough. I used to race a trailer sailer in Australia some years ago and by racing rules we had to lock our keels down supposedly while racing so we all had a pin to put through the keel when it was being inspected but more often than not seemed not to be used particularly downwind when by winding the keel up we could move weight to the stern and reduce wetted area.

One 24 feet boat weighing 650 Kgs all up [ballast ratio never stated] I took through the tail of Cyclone Joy in 1990, winds of 55 knots. She survived all right until I lost the mast when tacking [the bottle screws on the lee side had worked loose from all the shaking from the winds].

 

[antcollins]

Nothing wrong with a wind down keel as long as the keel box is strong enough...

All told I think the First 211 is pretty well laid up and the advantage is that she a simple boat. The keel also seems pretty tough. I love the foam filling that make it 'unsinkable'. My only worry is that to sail her properly she needs attention. This means that periods of rest will be very short in comparison to something like a Contessa. She is a big dingy and so you need to sail her.

 

[andlauer]

Bonsoir

The First 211 is rather easy to sail in regard to a Figaro !!!!

The First 211 was in my potential choice for the JC2010 !

Finally I would rather preffer a Muscadet. Mostly for the experienced millage of the serie (minitransat...)!

In fact I didn't bought any of them... yet.

The screwed keel doesn't seem to be a problem.

The fact that the boat is unsinkable would reduce the JC adaptation work.

The open transom is a security aspect (same as for the Figaro) : the water doesn't stay in the cockpit from one wave to the other in case of two following braking waves.

Two rudders are also a security factor and there is just the place to put a windwane betwenn them!

I dreamed to modify the sail plan to a old gaffer ! (small mast, small sails, huge range in sail surface).
Amicalement
Eric

 

[SAWDOC]

I cant say how well the 211 is laid up. I do know I came alongside one in my dinghy to have a word with the owner. I was amazed and alarmed at how the topsides flexed from the mild impact of my tender coming in contact. I wouldn't have one.

 

[helixkimara]

tender contact

Hey Mr Sawdoc,

Your dinghy didn't happen to have a 50 hp outboard on at the time with the throttle stuck and an anchor hanging over the bow ?