Jeanneau 43 DS

[bryanandwendy]

We are planning to go sail the med for a few years, would love to buy a Nauticat, HR, Oyster but can't really afford it unless it's an old one which has been well used and needs significant upgrade/repair &maintenance. SO.. to get something a little newer, been looking at the Jeanneau 43DS, appears to be well constructed, deck saloon which is what we want- the question is- what will she be like after several years use? Does anybody out there have any experience of late model Jenneau construction/durability? I know many will say that it's a production boat, therefore no good, etc etc, but I wonder how much of this is based on experience of 'production boats' of several years ago, which did indeed suffer from many problems. It seems to me that the same thing is happening to yachts as happened to cars- it's now difficult to buy a car which lets you down, the key difference is in the way we feel about the marque!
looking forward to your opinions

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[szydkids]

Yes, a Jeanneau 43 DS is a well constructed yacht. But you need to keep in mind what you are buying:

1. Production boats are engineered to use as little fiberglass as possible. I believe Jeanneau uses kevlar in their fabric at important stress points.
2. The Jeanneau/Beneteau line are not really blue-water yachts. They're too beamy and their cockpits are too wide for comfort in open seas. They're also quite light and never full-keeled.
3. The new trend toward light, bright, airy salons comes at the expense of storage space.

That said, this doesn't mean you can't have a great time cruising! A 43 DS is a great island hopper but I wouldn't want to cross an ocean in one. However, most deliveries to the US are on their own keel.

As for depreciation, that completely depends on your maintenance shedule. If you plan to keep the 43DS for more than 5 years then anyone buying will know the sails are beat. After 10 years most of the standing rigging will need replacement. But if you do an annual haul-out and scrape and paint the hull, (don't get teak decking), then you can count on an annual depreciation of 5-8% down to about 40% of it's original cost, where it will level out. Jeanneau uses decent quality hardware but it must be maintained at all times. As with any boat, attack problems as soon as possible since they never improve with age.

Keep it as simple as possible.

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[Moose]

"The Jeanneau/Beneteau line are not really blue-water yachts"
Certain models seem to be good as blue water yachts, for example I am looking at a Beneteau 461 which has been across the Atlantic 6 times. The 461 is generally thought to be better built than the other Oceanis range. The 461 doesn't keep its beam further back like the other Beneteaus so it scores there as well.


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Moose

 

[kesey]

"2. The Jeanneau/Beneteau line are not really blue-water yachts. They're too beamy and their cockpits are too wide for comfort in open seas. They're also quite light and never full-keeled."

Someone should tell all the guys in the Beneteaus and Jeanneaus just about to do the ARC that they are not really in blue-water yachts. Might as well tell Liza and Andy Copeland that Bagheera was not up to the job either. It's obviously a total mystery how they ever managed to reach the Med from England; going on to the Caribbean, Galapagos, Australia and toddling on back simply comfounds belief. Next time they should go in a real blue-water boat.


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[szydkids]

Isn't it all just a matter of degree?

I merely point out there are different yachts for different cruising styles.

Given a choice, half the boat and twice the money is almost always a good idea. After a long narrow Ocean 60 (clearly a bluewater) I'm saving for a new Beneteau 473 (clearly not). Alas, the cruising grounds are a changin'; how best to enjoy the Sir Francis Drake Channel? Wide cockpit, scoop transom, easy ingress/egress. The occassional hop to St. Martin is only 100 miles . . .

Then I was young, now I'm old.

And just on more sailing cliche; the best yacht is the one that gets you on the water today.

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[SPROUTZ]

Once again people have very strong feelings that modern cruisers built in mass production boat "manufacturing plants" are not serious and reliable for true sailing.

I had the same doubts 3 years ago when my wife and I were looking for a boat where we could live aboard for longer periods of time.

The dream of a Najad, a Fantasi or a Malö remained a dream when we realized that their costs were approximately 2.5 times the cost of a Jeanneau or Beneteau of the same length.
Of course the displacement was about 30% higher. Engines', winches' and electronics' brands were of the same quality.

We went through visiting the boatyards ( plants ) and finally Jeanneau manufacturing looked a lot more serious than expected.

We bought a new Sun Odsyssey 43 and two years later we are still extremely happy about:
-the sailing performances ( maximum a Force 7 till now when my wife didn't want to relinquish the wheel since she enjoyed steering her too much )
- the solidity since we do not have flexibility of the hull and do not hear any cracking or hull noise
- service under warranty by Jeanneau to sort out an infiltration of rain water
- safety in the cockpit where the table is a magnificent place to hold on
- internal comfort in our 2 cabins yacht plus an enormous locker where to keep the extra sails, the inflatable and the gangway, which is a need in the Med.

What we regret is the Yanmar which is very noisy when motoring. The sound insulation is a lot better than in our previous boat, but , as verified by a French magazine comparing different engines, the Yanmar was the noisiest among the Nanni and the Volvo.

Should we had decided to have a boat for sailing in Patagonia or in the sub Artic waters, of course our choice would have been different, but for islands hopping in the Med or for crossing the pond we have full confidence in our Sun Odyssey 43

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[Marsupial]

After a lot of research and chartering we found it very difficult to reject the Jeanneau range and we have a 43 "flat top" planning to live aboard in the Med next year. We rejected the D/S (which shares the same hull) because it gets too hot in the D/S "greenhouse" in the med! For the D/S layout to work you really need a much larger hull.

Mostly however, the reasons for the choice were construction methods which are the same across the range, the hull is laid up by hand and Jeanneau don't use a chopper gun, which could be described as an inferior technology. The hull has its own integrity, that's to say the stringers are big and moulded in while its in the mould, the hull does not need an inner moulding for strength as in some production boats. The deck - on pre 2004 boats is balsa sandwich and the high stress areas around winches and windlasses, chainplates are substancial. (I needed to buy a 4" long drill bit to fit a D ring on the foredeck of my 37, the layup around the windlass was that thick)

Rigs are simple and easily maintained, but I would steer clear of the inmast furling (the weakness (in my experience on a 37) is the sail not the mechanical furling system - when it stretches out of shape it wont furl). Most of the deck and mechanical fittings are "standard" and easily found throughout the Med - and I have seen Jeanneau agents in the BVI.

The charter market dictates that production boats must have a few fundamental qualities, be very strong, easy to sail, durable and easy to maintain, Jeanneau is all of these.

I agree the Yanmar is noisy but on balance the best of the engine options, as a general critique the french are not good at yatch engine installations and propeller sizing - Jeanneau say "we amke sailing yachts", I agree not a satisfactory answer, but hey a new prop only costs £300.

Is it a blue water cruiser? Well contrary to the myths of the (mostly) UK yachting press French production boats dont float best upside down! They are very sea worthy and many have circumnavigated.

My first boat was a Mirage, massively built, hit the harbour wall and you got a bill for damaging it. It had all the "right" (by some writers estimation) numbers for stability and sea worthyness - it sailed badly, sideways mostly, went through or under waves rather than over them, had a long keel that meant it was hard to tell if the rig was balanced and it wouldnt turn astern unless it was doing 5 knots and then it turned in 4 or 5 boat lengths. Warping out of a berth to windward is a science I could write the book for.

I chartered a Benetau in Greece and "discovered sailing" having sailed heavy unresponsive "Britsh Boats" for over 30 years - this thing went like a rocket, it sailed with hardly any leeway (or wind!), you could balance the helm/rig and it turned astern (I didn't like the hull construction and lay up though). But most surprising was the fact that it sailed with mast and not the "lightweight/undersized/unstable keel - pointing upwards! all this with a 30% displacement ratio - whats going on I thought? Force 7 force 8 and even force 9 on one occasion and the thing just nodded a bit and went faster (reefed of course).

I had done what the UK boating industry didn't want me to do - I had found that there is another way to solve the stability problem and its not safer or less safe - just different. But it does answer the question of why there are so many very fast french sailors! strong, light weight boats that SAIL.

Certainly after 4 years of Jeanneau ownship I would have no problem recomending Jeanneau as practical and affordable Yachts. They have swept back spreaders so you dont dead run, but then we learn that tacking down the wind is faster and safer.

As for depreciation - reckon on 20% over the first 2 - 3 years then the value goes up again relative to the price of new ones. After say 10 years if you keep it in good order expect to get what you paid for it - you loose inflation and the costs of maintenance.


Cheers


David









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[bryanandwendy]

Thanks to everybody for your answers, it's especially good to hear from people who are actually using the boat we are considering, especially that you are happy with it! We will probably go for something around 1~2 years old, avoiding most of the original depreciation. Ideally also be good to pick up a boat which has been fitted out for cruising, again it's cost efficient! I'll be avoiding the in mast furling.
We'll be living on the boat all year round in the med, perhaps avoiding August when it's too crowded and hot, so the plan is to fit out the bunk cabin as a store room/workshop, position a heater at the rear of one of the cockpit lockers, also I'd like to run a watermaker and 120 amp alt off the engine, but the eng comp't looks pretty tight. Has anybody any experience of this?
David- pre-2004 boats use end grain balsa- Do you know what Jeanneau are using currently?
Keep cruising
Bryan

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[Marsupial]

Latest boats use diviny cell topsides, as do many other manufacturers HSE or something (groan), the jury is still out on this construction method (in my opinion).

Make sure you look at all the internal layout options available tghey completley change the character of the boat as a long term livaboard and its storage capacity.

Oh and Jeanneau fit the webasto heating system in a cockpit locker - it seems to work ok.


Cheers



David


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[SPROUTZ]

Dear Bryan,

welcome to the club of present and future Sun Odyssey 43 owners.

I would like just to draw your attention to some points which we do really need to analyse before buying i.e. the maintenance costs.

To have such a boat usually implies a full coverage insurance at a cost of 1-1.5% of the value.
You cannot expect to live aboard for a full year without spending some months ( winter or summer ) in some marinas; the relevant yearly cost is another 1.5-2% at least of the value of your yacht.

You will need of course to have a yearly antifouling which means in the Med to have the boat laid ashore for at least a week and about 10 lt of antifouling and 2-3 days of full time paint work if you do it yourself and your wife. Otherwise the cost can sky rocket very quickly.

Do estimate a cost per night in a marina in the Med during summertime between 35 and 50 €. Anchoring is generally costless except in Croatia.

The best definition I found concerning sailing in the Med is: sailing from taverna to taverna.
My wife and I did that and intend to retire next year and pursue such a wonderful socializing life with people of different nationalities ( we are lucky to be able to understand and talk in all the main European languages ) around a table where conversation usually starts with a glass of wine or beer and ends eating something later on.

And we should not forget all toys that we feel must be given to our mistress THE BOAT.

If we are lucky, our wife shares our passion and does not complain that we can easily spend thousands of € or £ on things which are essential for the boat instead of buying jewels or nice dresses for them.

Who could be more beautiful than our woman in a red or yellow Musto or Henry Lloyd suit with the life jacket and harness on in a Force 7 or 8?

Cheers

Fabio

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[Anonymous]

We started out exactly where you are - our benchmark was a 43DS - for the same sort of use as you envisage, i.e. UK to Med and liveaboard. We spent February this year through July looking for the ideal boat. In early June we were offered a nearly new 43DS in perfect condition at a very good price but having looked over so many heavier-built boats we (sadly and with some embarrassment) declined the offer.

We ended up buying a Nauticat 42, 1999, already equipped with watermaker, 6kVA generator, SSB, and a host of other extras for circumnavigation and live-aboard use. I won't publish here what we paid but if you would like to send me a PM....

The market is very weak for new and second hand boats right now and brokers will welcome any offers, however 'cheeky' as long as they are backed by immediate funds.

My wife and I are very happy indeed that we did not opt for the 43DS - albeit a lovely boat - but not, in our view, as good a live-aboard for the Med as a Nauticat, Najad, etc. which can now be purchased for a similar price.

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[Moose]

Please show me where I can get a Najad at the same price as a Jeanneau!

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Moose

 

[Anonymous]

>>Please show me where I can get a Najad at the same price as a Jeanneau!<<

Have a look at http://www.fine-yachts.de/fy_03_e/frd/frd_brokeragelist.html - the Najad 440, 1989, will be VERY negotiable. She is lying in La Trinite, we saw her in the early spring. There are loads more. The market is weak, but asking prices are still high. If you really like the yacht and have the money go in cheeky. You could well get your dream for a fraction of what you expected. I speak from experience.

There is a nice Nauticat 43 lying in Mallorca, which I viewed in Sardinia last July. She is really nice and is probably still in commission or only very recently laid up. Ignore the asking price. You will get her for less than a new-ish 43DS. Talk to Nauticat UK at Hamble.

There are some real bargains out there - just ignore the asking price.

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[Robin]

Apples and oranges

So your comparison is between the price of a NEW Jeanneau versus that of a 15 year old Najad? Why not look at a 1978 Swan as well! Not saying there is anything wrong with an older used boat, that is what I always buy but it is hardly a fair comparison in this case is it?

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[Anonymous]

Re: Apples and oranges

>>but it is hardly a fair comparison in this case is it?<<

Eh? I said that I had turned down a newish 43DS and bought a 1999 Nauticat 42 for similar money. That is fact and I will give you the details if you send me a PM. I was asked where one could buy a Najad for a similar price to a Jeanneau and I found one...complete with watermaker, generator, etc. Believe me, at the moment this is a buyers' market and becoming more so by the day. I would urge anyone who thought that they couldn't afford a boat from the more expensive end of the market to make an offer on one before actually committing to buying one from the cheaper end of the market. Maybe the market is also very weak at the cheaper end but I don't think that it is quite as weak.

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[Robin]

Re: Apples and oranges

It sounds like you got a really good deal.

However we spent some time looking at older boats versus a new SO 40 and on paper there were some 'bargains'. In practice most of what we saw was very tired, having done a circumnavigation or extended stint of liveaboard and were being sold in need of extensive refits and TLC. We still bought older and a boat too that had been lived on for 6 years in the Med, albeit only 4 months per year. It came modified just about as we would have wished for to suit 2 of us, but we still spent lots of money on top of the purchase price on new sails, standing and running rigging, new canvas, electronics etc. We did this knowingly and it was a very good choice, but the purchase price was not the final cost by a long way.

Boats that have been for sale for a really long time may well be bought for much lower than the asking prices, but we have to ask ourselves why they haven't sold. We travelled many miles over many months looking at them (itself a costly excersize) before we found our ideal, which we bought just 5 days after she arrived back from Malta and only 20mls from us here.

So I'm not saying it is not possible and certainly not decrying older boats (ours is 1988) but I am saying be careful because not everything is as good as it seems.



<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[tcm]

If you're mainly planning sailing the med, then you'll be fine with a jeanneau, i wd've thought.

Mostly, in the med, the game is to keep the temp and direct sunlight down.

So, in the med, the right equipment could include a bit of air conditioning. Even if you just have a teeny airco unit for one cabin, it's worth it, to cool down. I found myself going into banks to sort of hang about for a cool down without a bit of airco.

Other gear worth having, esp for deck saloon, is something to keep the saloon temp down - even with or without airco. It's unlikely that you'll spend a load of time in there in med, but regardless you need the sunshade material over windows when at anchor - still allows you to see out but chops out highh proportion of the light - sort of grey/black plastic woven material clips on with poppers, perhaps make it or get it made if not a standard option.

You also need a bimini, of course, but try to get this adapted or added to with a side shade as well: at anchor, sun is still v hot from one side in afternoons, so a movable clip-on side shade praps a couple of metres long is worth while, that attaches to back, or either side, to shade to cockpit.

Space may be at a premium, but you may also be able to squeeze in an icemaker. Why not? Not expensive items, transforms life on board.

Spares-wise, i wd gues you will be fine with a jeanneau whereas some more quality makes might be a bit rarer to find. In most main ports, frexample, you should be able to find some fairly expert people used to pulling apaprt a jeanneau and putting it back together if needed.

Don't skimp on anchor gear, and gear to dump/cut the anchor and still have another another anchor.






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[Apetts]

You might find it usefull to enroll on the Jeanneau Discussion group on the sailnet web site. I bought a new SO40 two years ago and have found the site very useful in finding and preventing the annoying snags found in new boats. Members frequently post details of their problems and a little checking on your boat can prevent you experiencing the same problems. Look at
www.sailnet.com/resources/index.cfm
select e-mail lists then sailnet boatowners lists and finally jeanneau discussion lists.
For non jeanneau owners there are lists for most boats. Happy reading.
Adrian

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[alexsailor]

Anyone here owning 43DS?

 

[sailaboutvic]

Dear Bryan,


Do estimate a cost per night in a marina in the Med during summertime between 35 and 50 €. Anchoring is generally costless except in Croatia.



Cheers

Fabio

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Your are right about anchoring in Croatia , three months anchoring other then one night on a buoy , are full cost was 30 Euros .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com