Island Packet-are they worth it?

[ffiill]

There is a beautiful example of as I recall a 41 foot SP cruiser ashore next to my boat.
Whilst it is full of the latest electronics and equipment including electric furling etc it just seems to me that you can get a great deal more boat for a great deal less.
Earlier this year there was a 25 year old example of the 34 foor version in for repairs-a hole a metre or so in diameter.Despite this the Insurance Company was prepared to pay in excess of £30,000 to repair it.
So are they really worth their weight in gold so to speak?

 

[Tranona]

They sell in a niche market where a very small number of people (relatively) believe they are worth the price. Perhaps because of the high price and relative scarcity there are also people who see them as good secondhand buys which helps maintain the price.
So, the answer to your question depends on whether you are one of that very small number of people or not. Or maybe you are one of the much larger number of dreamers who wished they were in a position to test it for themselves.

 

[jonic]

For the right person, absolutely.

 

[Rossynant]

It's simple question: how many other builders were still left in the 1990's who built traditional heavy longkeelers, well ballanced hulls, solidly made, with roomy accomodations; just for long distance, living in comfort?
Should someone desire the opposite: modern lightweight, unballanced finkeel, shaking itself (not to mention crew) to pieces in any rougher weather or when grounded - plenty to choose from...

Those of us who want something solid underfoot have to look for very old boats (also not many of them and not cheap at all) and spend more money on repairs and replacements than price of couple years old ex-charter in mint state.
Someone who wants the boat younger is left with hardly any choice.

IP has made itself a fame, of course, like some others - WestSail, Tradewind, Vancouver...
http://www.iphomeport.com/forum/files/brochures/Brochure_IP35.PDF

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

No

 

[Koeketiene]

There is a beautiful example of as I recall a 41 foot SP cruiser ashore next to my boat.
Whilst it is full of the latest electronics and equipment including electric furling etc it just seems to me that you can get a great deal more boat for a great deal less.
Earlier this year there was a 25 year old example of the 34 foor version in for repairs-a hole a metre or so in diameter.Despite this the Insurance Company was prepared to pay in excess of £30,000 to repair it.
So are they really worth their weight in gold so to speak?

We seriously considered an IP before buying current boat.
Other half liked the internal layout - very comfortable saloon/cabins and well laid-out galley.

Even took one out for a test sail.
And that was, IMHO, the show-stopper. Her sailing characteristics left me distinctly unimpressed.
They may be built like a brick outhouse, alas they handle like one too.

If the only thing that matters to you is getting somewhere in safety and comfort but you are in no great hurry about it, an IP may very well be the boat for you.
If, on the other hand, you also like a a boat that handles and sails (!!) well you may want to look elsewhere.

All IMHO of course.

PS: I also don't find them exactly 'easy on the eyes'.

 

[sighmoon]

They seem to have piqued a lot of interest, as there was another thread along these lines a short while ago.

It's simple question: how many other builders were still left in the 1990's who built traditional heavy longkeelers, well ballanced hulls, solidly made, with roomy accomodations; just for long distance, living in comfort?
Should someone desire the opposite: modern lightweight, unballanced finkeel, shaking itself (not to mention crew) to pieces in any rougher weather or when grounded - plenty to choose from...

I think that's harsh. A fin keeler can still be balanced - many can be persuaded to sail themselves on most points of sail. In thousands of miles, I've never had a boat shake itself, or me, to pieces in rough weather. Has anybody you know?

Every boat is a compromise, and it depends what your priorities are. IMHO, the things an IP would do better than most are:

Accommodation - they are very wide, and the beam is carried well forward.
Comfort at anchor - a v shaped stern means no slamming
Shallow draft
Can take the ground.

 

[Simondjuk]

On several occasions I noted the behavior of a 27 footer moored alongside. The slightest bit of wash and it rolled like a pig, and I mean horrendous fenders trapped under then popping out above the pontoon type rolling. Not a happy sight.

 

[haydude]

They aren't worth their price because in my personal opinion they look ugly and I would not spend those sorts of money for an ugly looking boat.

 

[ffiill]

To place this in perspective an SP Cruiser ex works without tax from Florida is about $450,000. Only recently I was looking at a similar sized pilot house well built well equipped round bilge steel blue water cruiser about 20 years old at under £50,000 which allowing for VAT and Duty on the Island Packet makes it about one tenth the price.

 

[ip485]

They are beautiful, but then I decided on one after a great deal of thought, and review of the market.

The build quality really is second to none. I have had some work done, and the yard who have worked on just about every make imaginable, are impressed with the build quality every time they work on an IP.

I couldn't fine anything the same size as mine that came close to offering the same level of comfort and well thought out interior design other than Oysters which were maybe a third more.

It goes without saying they aren't the quickest, particularly in light weather, but having come from a racing background they weren't conceived to race round the cans. They were conceived to go anywhere, anytime in comfort and they do that very well. In fact over long distance, down wind, especially in heavier conditions, they take some beating for lots of reason, and after all isn't that what a blue water yacht is all about?

I think they are pretty. The magnolia colour is not everyone's choice but it does grow on you. I obviously like the lines.

They will look after you superbly. We were down the coast in a force 8 just the week end before last. While the sea didn't justify the wind and it was downwind the boat just didn't notice and nor did we (except the perishing cold). We tramped along at over 9 knots for 6 hours, without being pressed.

They are easily handled two up, or even single handed, which is good for a large yacht and room inside is truly cavernous for a couple to live in as much comfort as in a small apartment.

In short, if you want to live on board for a time, want to go anywhere in comfort, aren't worried about being the quickest, and want a yacht that will last and not show any signs of wear and tear after many years of hard use put an IP on your list. If you want to race, day sail, and most of your sailing doesnt involve longer legs there are better alternatives. I guess if you want to spend most of your time in the marina in comfort, and cost is not a huge concern, you would still do well to include an IP on the list.

 

[Tranona]

To place this in perspective an SP Cruiser ex works without tax from Florida is about $450,000. Only recently I was looking at a similar sized pilot house well built well equipped round bilge steel blue water cruiser about 20 years old at under £50,000 which allowing for VAT and Duty on the Island Packet makes it about one tenth the price.

Not a fair comparison. Old steel boats are invariably "cheap" - reflecting how people value them. If they suit your needs are you are happy with dealing with the downsides then clearly they are better value for you than an IP. However, not everybody values the same things, hence the availability of boats in all kinds of size, type and price range.

 

[Rossynant]

I think that's harsh. A fin keeler can still be balanced - many can be persuaded to sail themselves on most points of sail. In thousands of miles, I've never had a boat shake itself, or me, to pieces in rough weather. Has anybody you know?
Every boat is a compromise, and it depends what your priorities are.

Of course this is not about finkeel only and balance or motion is another thing. I thought the sentence was rather clear: lightweight unballanced finkeel kind boats. Lightweight unballanced longkeels also existed but not many on market lately
Yup, I know people who were injured on lightweight boats, or such that complained about the breakages, or motion and hardship. Some people suffer seasickness, and boats are not equal in this aspect. Finkeelers or not.

I only say majority of newer boats on market now are lightweight, finkeeled and unballanced. Such are made for sailing in charter, for short vacations in sunny places with nice sea conditions. Plenty of them and can be found cheaply. Sure there are old heavier boats too, but rather as they say here - MABs. Too small for long cruise in comfort.
Someone who wants different kind finds much less supply and rarity gets price higher. Not knowing IP closely, but boats for serious cruising are more costly to built too.

Another thing in old boat is built quality. They say IP are made solidly, such a boat make better buy when old, since it may still be sound. Lightly made hull, thin or cored as now common, may need costly repairs or be impossible to repair at all.
Same goes for steel boats - as mentioned above - anticorrosive protection has about 20 years lifetime, after this either boat must be stripped, insides included, blasted, and all this painting made anew, or it may become a constant trouble. Either way is costly, cheaper sometimes to make new hull and transfer the equipment...

PS I waited for a "right" boat some two years. Not in a hurry, wanted traditional longkeel, easy to manage, with good enough accomodation (not much, just enough). Could buy any 10 year ex-charter same size and price in a first day; Greece and Croatia is full.

 

[jonic]

They are beautiful, but then I decided on one after a great deal of thought, and review of the market.

The build quality really is second to none. I have had some work done, and the yard who have worked on just about every make imaginable, are impressed with the build quality every time they work on an IP.

I couldn't fine anything the same size as mine that came close to offering the same level of comfort and well thought out interior design other than Oysters which were maybe a third more.

It goes without saying they aren't the quickest, particularly in light weather, but having come from a racing background they weren't conceived to race round the cans. They were conceived to go anywhere, anytime in comfort and they do that very well. In fact over long distance, down wind, especially in heavier conditions, they take some beating for lots of reason, and after all isn't that what a blue water yacht is all about?

I think they are pretty. The magnolia colour is not everyone's choice but it does grow on you. I obviously like the lines.

They will look after you superbly. We were down the coast in a force 8 just the week end before last. While the sea didn't justify the wind and it was downwind the boat just didn't notice and nor did we (except the perishing cold). We tramped along at over 9 knots for 6 hours, without being pressed.

They are easily handled two up, or even single handed, which is good for a large yacht and room inside is truly cavernous for a couple to live in as much comfort as in a small apartment.

In short, if you want to live on board for a time, want to go anywhere in comfort, aren't worried about being the quickest, and want a yacht that will last and not show any signs of wear and tear after many years of hard use put an IP on your list. If you want to race, day sail, and most of your sailing doesnt involve longer legs there are better alternatives. I guess if you want to spend most of your time in the marina in comfort, and cost is not a huge concern, you would still do well to include an IP on the list.

See, for the right person they are.

I might buy one one day as well.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

See, for the right person they are.

I might buy one one day as well.

You would be better off in a Rustler.
Better build quality.
Doesn't look like a Creme Brûlée
Made in England
Better resale value.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Tranona]

Just my opinion of course.

Exactly! That is why there is no definitive answer to the OPs question.

Looking (sorry guessing a bit) at the numbers sold there is a similar number of people around who have the opposite opinion to you.

 

[jonic]

You would be better off in a Rustler.
Better build quality.
Doesn't look like a Creme Brûlée
Made in England
Better resale value.

Just my opinion of course.

I love Creme Brulee

 

[dulcibella]

The build quality is outstanding but the overall concept is an unhappy compromise between a traditional long-keeler (low and fairly narrow) and a modern large-volume boat with high topsides and a wide beam. The result is a poor sailing performance. Great as a floating luxury caravan but not really an option for satisfactory sailing.

 

[rostyvyg]

..."The result is a poor sailing performance. Great as a floating luxury caravan but not really an option for satisfactory sailing."

This might be true when speaking about old 2 digit models or small new 3 digit models. New large 3 digit Island Packets (starting with IP 380 and progressively so from IP 420) are a dream to sail. They are reasonably fast, very stable, very comfortable close hauled in high waves. As opposed to modern flat bottomed fin keeled boats that slam into waves shaking your dentures off Island Packets part waves like knife blades which results in less tiring passages. They might be not so agile in light air but that's what Code 0 and asymmetric spinnakers are. Anyway, each boat has its purpose and if you want to race around cans in a bay any Clorox bottle production boats will do. Take one across an ocean in bad weather, though, and other qualities will quickly become desired. I hope Island Packet factory survives the current "disposable" market trends and keeps building quality yachts, - as one earlier poster mentioned this is pretty much the only choice of a new quality modern full keel cruiser on the market now for someone who is seeking one...

 

[Greg2]

..."The result is a poor sailing performance. Great as a floating luxury caravan but not really an option for satisfactory sailing."

This might be true when speaking about old 2 digit models or small new 3 digit models. New large 3 digit Island Packets (starting with IP 380 and progressively so from IP 420) are a dream to sail. They are reasonably fast, very stable, very comfortable close hauled in high waves. As opposed to modern flat bottomed fin keeled boats that slam into waves shaking your dentures off Island Packets part waves like knife blades which results in less tiring passages. They might be not so agile in light air but that's what Code 0 and asymmetric spinnakers are. Anyway, each boat has its purpose and if you want to race around cans in a bay any Clorox bottle production boats will do. Take one across an ocean in bad weather, though, and other qualities will quickly become desired. I hope Island Packet factory survives the current "disposable" market trends and keeps building quality yachts, - as one earlier poster mentioned this is pretty much the only choice of a new quality modern full keel cruiser on the market now for someone who is seeking one...

We looked at IP 370 / 380 - would you include both models in your ‘dream to sail’ category?