ISAF OSR Cat 4 - do I really have to have storm sails & a fixed toilet?

[MissFitz]

I was thinking of doing Round the Island this year in my Sonata so have been looking up the Cat 4 requirements & am (as usual) a bit confused. Are they really saying that I have to have a full set of storm sails? And a 'permanently installed toilet or fixed bucket'? The former I can get, I guess, although it seems a bit excessive for short coastal races. No idea what I'd do about the latter, or indeed why it would be necessary. And how come I need all this for a Sonata for RTI when they let sportsboats take part?

 

[PhillM]

Yes they let sports boats compete, but if the forecast is windy, they call them off earlier than larger classes. They expect the larger boats to be able to take more weather.

 

[Ingwe]

I was thinking of doing Round the Island this year in my Sonata so have been looking up the Cat 4 requirements & am (as usual) a bit confused. Are they really saying that I have to have a full set of storm sails? And a 'permanently installed toilet or fixed bucket'? The former I can get, I guess, although it seems a bit excessive for short coastal races. No idea what I'd do about the latter, or indeed why it would be necessary. And how come I need all this for a Sonata for RTI when they let sportsboats take part?

The relevant bit for cat 4 for "storm sails" is - "Either mainsail reefing to reduce the luff by 12.5% or a heavy-weather jib" so you either need a mainsail that you can putt one reef in, or a heavy weather jib which has to have a max area of "13.5% height of the foretriangle (IG) squared" and must be useable even if the luff groove has failed - you normally find that your No 4 jib will meet this requirement - it's much bigger than a storm jib, so I would be fairly surprised if you don't already meet these requirements with your existing sails - for a Cat 4 race they should not be sending you out if you need proper storm sails.

As for the bucket it effectively means that you must have 2 buckets on board one of which should be able to be lashed in place so as to be useable as a toilet - on my old J24 we used to just lash in to the mast down bellow.

 

[MissFitz]

Ah, right, thanks, that makes it much clearer. Definitely have two reefs in the main so that's not a problem. Don't have a No 4 but I do have a No 3 which is pretty small, will check on the dimensions. Not sure what to do about lashing a bucket as the Sonata mast is deck-stepped, but expect I can figure something out. Does seem an odd requirement tho - surely much easier to use, not to mention empty, a bucket if it's NOT lashed!

 

[awol]

Emptying the bucket while racing could be construed as a breach of Rule 55 especially if bog paper is involved. Tying it down until the end of the race is probably a good idea.
I am informed a http://www.shewee.com/the-original-shewee.html?gclid=CIvS65Px0NMCFY8Q0wodXUECvQ gives parity with the male micturation facility.

 

[GrahamD]

Emptying the bucket while racing could be construed as a breach of Rule 55 especially if bog paper is involved. Tying it down until the end of the race is probably a good idea.
I am informed a http://www.shewee.com/the-original-shewee.html?gclid=CIvS65Px0NMCFY8Q0wodXUECvQ gives parity with the male micturation facility.

I'm not sure that the use of a sea toilet would constitute trash as in "Rule 55 Disposal of Trash" otherwise the Vendee Globe or transat boats would be very unpleasant places to be, after a circumnavigation. Also to enforce this interpretation of the rule, presumably the waste tanks in the boat would need to be inspected and measured after an event.

This would also make scrutineering the least popular role amongst the race team.

 

[MissFitz]

I am informed a http://www.shewee.com/the-original-shewee.html?gclid=CIvS65Px0NMCFY8Q0wodXUECvQ gives parity with the male micturation facility.

I have one & have experimented with it (as suggested in the instructions) in the shower. It worked well, however I was not at all convinced that the same results could be achieved while bouncing around in a brisk seaway in merino tights, thermals, primaloft salopettes & waterproofs. Buckets are best - easy to use, low maintenance & can be moved around the boat as required. Admittedly I have once been kicked across the saloon with bucket by a skipper anxious to get at the engine - but I have an outboard on the Sonata, so that problem won't arise.

 

[flaming]

I have one & have experimented with it (as suggested in the instructions) in the shower. It worked well, however I was not at all convinced that the same results could be achieved while bouncing around in a brisk seaway in merino tights, thermals, primaloft salopettes & waterproofs. Buckets are best - easy to use, low maintenance & can be moved around the boat as required. Admittedly I have once been kicked across the saloon with bucket by a skipper anxious to get at the engine - but I have an outboard on the Sonata, so that problem won't arise.

Plus of course you will be the one doing the kicking!

 

[DFL1010]

Emptying the bucket while racing could be construed as a breach of Rule 55 especially if bog paper is involved. Tying it down until the end of the race is probably a good idea.
I am informed a http://www.shewee.com/the-original-shewee.html?gclid=CIvS65Px0NMCFY8Q0wodXUECvQ gives parity with the male micturation facility.

World Sailing has considered the question:
Q&A N001

Question
Is human excremental matter considered to be trash for the purpose of RRS 55?
Answer
No, human excremental matter is sewage and not trash. Competitors should however note that there may be other laws and regulations that apply.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

This secured (with a couple of wooden blocks) just forward of the bulkhead on the port side, or between the 'V' of the V-berth, gets you 100% compliance for £15. Then carry on using your bucket as per normal. The spinnaker launch bag hanging in the companionway affords all the privacy you need in the main part of the cabin. If you don't have a spinnaker bag suspended from wires in the companion bag you need to get that sorted anyway for racing.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/h7b/Portable-Camping-Festival-Toilet-Bucket-Detachable-Outdoor/B00UB2T1IE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1493824819&sr=8-1&keywords=camping+toilet+bucket

If you check through your sails you might find something small enough to be a heavy weather jib. Racing sonatas come with a genoa (No1) and full hoist jib (No3) which has battens in the leech. Assuming you have hank on sails and not a foil, then any other jib that isn't full hoist or battened will be okay to be designated your heavy weather sail.

 

[bbg]

Miss Fitz - if you use a bucket while at sea, you may find it useful - for certain uses - to use a bag in the bucket. Grocery stores sell specific bags for compostable waste. The bags you put your vegetable peelings in etc. These bags feel like plastic but in fact are made of things like rice and potatoes. They biodegrade.
Put the bag in the bucket, do your business in the bag, put in any TP and toss the bag overboard. No need to clean the bucket.

Not an issue when you are way offshore. I might think twice about it in the Solent.

 

[MissFitz]

This secured (with a couple of wooden blocks) just forward of the bulkhead on the port side, or between the 'V' of the V-berth, gets you 100% compliance for £15. Then carry on using your bucket as per normal.

That might explain why the boat came with a portapotty. Which I took straight off to the tip. Damn.

Plus of course you will be the one doing the kicking!

Indeed, it's great being a skipper. Time-consuming & expensive, but great!

 

[MissFitz]

Miss Fitz - if you use a bucket while at sea, you may find it useful - for certain uses - to use a bag in the bucket. Grocery stores sell specific bags for compostable waste. The bags you put your vegetable peelings in etc. These bags feel like plastic but in fact are made of things like rice and potatoes. They biodegrade.
Put the bag in the bucket, do your business in the bag, put in any TP and toss the bag overboard. No need to clean the bucket.

Interesting idea, thanks, hadn't thought of that.

Edit: although, just occurs to me, do you think they're ok for fish etc? Even if biodegradable, guess they might not be great if swallowed by a dolphin or some such?

 

[bbg]

Interesting idea, thanks, hadn't thought of that.

Edit: although, just occurs to me, do you think they're ok for fish etc? Even if biodegradable, guess they might not be great if swallowed by a dolphin or some such?

I reckon if they can swallow a fish whole, they can probably manage a small bag of poo wrapped in rice paper.

I know you were considering doing some more serious offshore stuff a few years ago - if that is still on your agenda let me know.