Is this real and if so has it just changed the world?
- Thread starter Malabarista
- Start date
pvb
Well-Known Member
Don't waste your time on Waterlog posts. Nobody knows anyone who's actually had one working. The "company" is secretive and confrontational. An internet search will throw up lots of stuff.
Lon nan Gruagach
Well-Known Member
Cut through the media twaddle (sadly published and promoted by the manufacturer as well) and what youhave is reverse osmosis driven by a pump powered by a propeller.
"working without any power" now theres the bollox, try telling that to the skipper that sees a loss of over a knot when its deployed.
Does it work: yes with out a doubt
Is it a fancy bit of kit that makes life easy: same again
Does it use no power: save it for April 1st
pvb
Well-Known Member
Can you give a link to anyone who's actually got it working? If you Google for waterlog watermaker you'll find countless stories about this scam.
Malabarista
Well-Known Member
Sorry everyone …stand down…
I did run a search for ‘waterlog’ but nothing came up… apparently it was crap even back in 2005…my mistake…
I did run a search for ‘waterlog’ but nothing came up… apparently it was crap even back in 2005…my mistake…
Malabarista
Well-Known Member
Please can someone delete this post? I don’t want people in 15 years time to know how intelligent I wasn’t
oz-1
Well-Known Member
Iv'e never heard of waterlog, but i did read that with the advent of graphene, it might be possible to make desalinators that do not require very high pressure pumps for the process. I think the article said the process would be similar to having a coffee filter and pouring the sea water through the graphene filter would produce fresh water. That sounds miraculous, great for boating people and also great for all mankind. I hope that it will succeed.
Lon nan Gruagach
Well-Known Member
I stand (amazingly) corrected. Dontcha just love being wrong.
What was I so confident, well why wouldnt it work?
I guess the pre treatment phase might be tricksy, but then on what could be simpler? A pump driven by a towed propeller.
Unless the company has it patented up to the eyeballs then go make one, I feel there would be a good market.
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
From what I recall of reading about this a few years back, they never solved the engineering problems inherent in their solution. Ruptured hoses, sized bearings, leaky joints etc etc. Poor quality control just about killed any chance of it working.
PuffTheMagicDragon
Well-Known Member
They probably used an unsuitable lubricant. Had they bothered to contact me I could have given them a very favourable price for some special oil that I can obtain directly from an exclusive source through a contact that I have in Zimbabwe. He won't sell it unless it is through me, his sole marketing agent. At the moment he is in the process of setting up a separate independent facility for its production since he has decided to quit his previous employment and carried his formula with him.
p.s. I forgot to add that his previous employment was as director of the Reptile House of the National Zoo in Harare.
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Neeves
Well-Known Member
If this was part of the problem then modern engineering and decent quality control would solve the issues.
I did note they were using dated and hardly user friendly technology - a stainless tow rope would be a real nightmare, in my humble opinion - why not an anti torque dyneema.
I note a lot of discouraging negativity in the posts. We seem unable to open our minds to novel ideas.
We have an Aero4Aquagen. At 10 knots it will produce 10amps and 10 amps will drive our desalinator and produce 60l of water/hr. The trick is using that same energy, cutting out the middle man (electricity) and using that energy to desalinate water. Lose 50% through inefficiency and making 30l per hour would satisfy most cruising yachts. I also note the comment - who will tolerate a loss of 1 knot - (not sure where the 1 knot comes from) but most cruising yachts would welcome the ability to make 30l of fresh water an hour - and would quite happily sacrifice 1 knot - its not as if they have a schedule.
Our LVM aerogen is pretty simple and based on pretty old technology - today we have access to much better REO magnets that (thanks to China) are cheaper. I might have thought a towed generator made today (think of Watt and Sea) might be more efficient.
In the same way a towed water maker, along the lines of Waterlog, might be feasible.
I might encourage the makers of Torqueedo (and its clones) to consider looking at the market currently serviced by Watt and Sea I would welcome anyone who sticks their neck out to develop something making an alternative to electric powered desalinators (Rainman being one example - though hardly novel).
Our first GPS had an accuracy of 100m (we still have it, it still operates with that same accuracy) and would have been totally useless as a chart plotter it simply produced lat and long) - how things change.
If 'Waterlog' produced fresh water - there is the germ of an idea and process that needs to be supported - not damned. Possibly the attitude of the development team might need to change - if the posts above are correct - but given the attitudes here - I'm not surprised they are hiding. Maybe someone else needs to pick up the idea and run with it.
Jonathan
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
The magazine article dates to 2002, the reports I’ve seen were dated later but still over 10 years old. I’m not dissing the concept (towed impeller extracting energy) but the flawed implementation of the idea, which never really got much beyond the drawing board.....
I have an Aquair 100 towed generator and it’s great, produces enough energy to keep pace with the navigation gear. As you say, if I were looking at desalination seriously I’d be seeking to put the actual works of the desalination aboard the boat and provide alternative sources of energy to drive it, not hauling the major parts of the equipment through the water. Makes no sense to me.
Edit.
Thread from 2005 here about the thing. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?62398-Waterlog-Watermaker
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noelex
Well-Known Member
60 L per hour from 10 A (I presume @ 12v) is incrediably good.
What model watermaker do you have?
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Apology, 10amps 30l, 60l i a bit more than twice that, don't recall exact figure.
The argument i the same, cut out the middleman.
Jonathan
The argument i the same, cut out the middleman.
Jonathan
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Some ideas don't work, they die - this one seems to have lasted too long.
But
Peter Bruce, arguably, introduced the concave anchor in the 70s. He also simultaneously patented the roll bar. It has taken decades but now every other new anchor on a bow roller has a roll bar now. Ideas take a long time to germinate and then be accepted.
Does this idea have germ of sense behind it. Ignore the fact is is towed - if it was in a pod fixed to the transom (like Watt and Sea) - would it work?
One suggestion is that it failed because of poor engineering and quality control - the suggestion being - get that right and maybe it would be a winner. The other suggestion is - its all smoke and mirrors.
So what is it? Does anyone have sufficient knowledge, is the knowledge available, to condemn the idea. Or are views on the device actual views on the ethics of the people involved.
Too many ideas are condemned without any basis - I recall in the late 80's being told (by a cordage manufacturer) dyneema was susceptible to UV and had poor abrasion resistance. Saildrives were outright condemned when they were introduced. High Tensile chain is bound to fail - its not even used on oil rigs ?? Has anyone checked this statement??? 7075 alloy has poor corrosion resistance - obviously anodising has not been heard of either. I recall a major chain maker having their chain Armorgalv coated not having made any tests nor setting a coating thickness specification - and were surprised when they had resounding failures and had to recall all the product.
Some ideas are good - just need the right platform, some ideas are more questionable.
Surely we can look and comment on whether ideas are sound, argue that soundness, or lack of. The supposed ethics, or lack of, of the people involved should not detract from the technology - unless it does not exist.
What is amazing is the gullibility of people to shell out money, quite large sums, on a product that apparently does not work (and has no independent reviews). Now that is a mystery - though not uncommon - you will not want examples
Jonathan
But
Peter Bruce, arguably, introduced the concave anchor in the 70s. He also simultaneously patented the roll bar. It has taken decades but now every other new anchor on a bow roller has a roll bar now. Ideas take a long time to germinate and then be accepted.
Does this idea have germ of sense behind it. Ignore the fact is is towed - if it was in a pod fixed to the transom (like Watt and Sea) - would it work?
One suggestion is that it failed because of poor engineering and quality control - the suggestion being - get that right and maybe it would be a winner. The other suggestion is - its all smoke and mirrors.
So what is it? Does anyone have sufficient knowledge, is the knowledge available, to condemn the idea. Or are views on the device actual views on the ethics of the people involved.
Too many ideas are condemned without any basis - I recall in the late 80's being told (by a cordage manufacturer) dyneema was susceptible to UV and had poor abrasion resistance. Saildrives were outright condemned when they were introduced. High Tensile chain is bound to fail - its not even used on oil rigs ?? Has anyone checked this statement??? 7075 alloy has poor corrosion resistance - obviously anodising has not been heard of either. I recall a major chain maker having their chain Armorgalv coated not having made any tests nor setting a coating thickness specification - and were surprised when they had resounding failures and had to recall all the product.
Some ideas are good - just need the right platform, some ideas are more questionable.
Surely we can look and comment on whether ideas are sound, argue that soundness, or lack of. The supposed ethics, or lack of, of the people involved should not detract from the technology - unless it does not exist.
What is amazing is the gullibility of people to shell out money, quite large sums, on a product that apparently does not work (and has no independent reviews). Now that is a mystery - though not uncommon - you will not want examples
Jonathan
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noelex
Well-Known Member
That is more typical for the energy recovery water makers.
You have written several articles about using using a Rainman water maker. Have they an energy recovery model available now? Or have you installed a different model?
The smallest Rainman listed on the website consumes a 32 A for a 30 L an hour output.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
I believe Rainman have a number of models now (and I am sure if you check their website everything is listed - they seem pretty clewed up) - having developed beyond the Honda powered model, which is still in the programme. I am not aware they have an energy recovery model.
Their original model was, I thought, a bright idea it allowed desalination independent of the vessel's ability to produce electricity or power. All you needed was petrol (and the water!) - which most yachts carry for their outboard. No need to deplete batteries, buy a gen set, run a gen set, run the diesel engines - all you needed was petrol - which as I say everyone carries and is easily sourced, anywhere.
They now produce a range of desal units using standard components - but they depend on electricity, batteries, gen set etc. I did look at their complete range, then, about 12 months ago - they are decent sized operation now - they seem to fill a neat market niche.
The new desalinators in the range don't offer anything new, that I can see - except you can take them home, or to another yacht (or plumb them in). They might have a commercial edge, don't know.
I had hoped they would combine the Honda powered desal unit to also switch to making power, electricity, (incorporate the standard Honda gen set) as then the engine would be much more cost effective - I dream to much
I did like the petrol driven model - simply because it offered a different option - and its the 21st Century where the idea of a shower once a week has lost its appeal. The latter is driven home as soon as you have your female daughter and granddaughters on board - they not only want your retired phones but they also want a shower twice a day - apparently its part of birthright! Obviously if you are not graced with female offspring - you might not know any of this.
If someone could, or has, developed a desal unit that could convert the energy of the moving yacht (prop/impellor) and use that energy directly to desalinate (and it is possible to produce 10 amps at 10 knots - enough, indirectly, to make 30l/hr) - has considerable appeal - if it is possible - and that was where this thread comes in - is it technically feasible?
No, we do not have a Rainman unit. Our Spectra unit is fine - but gobbles amps - though not quite as fast as a Rainman. If we needed to replace the Spectra we would very seriously look at the Honda driven Rainman, with 2 membranes) but not their electric range.
Jonathan
Here we are
https://www.rainmandesal.com
Their original model was, I thought, a bright idea it allowed desalination independent of the vessel's ability to produce electricity or power. All you needed was petrol (and the water!) - which most yachts carry for their outboard. No need to deplete batteries, buy a gen set, run a gen set, run the diesel engines - all you needed was petrol - which as I say everyone carries and is easily sourced, anywhere.
They now produce a range of desal units using standard components - but they depend on electricity, batteries, gen set etc. I did look at their complete range, then, about 12 months ago - they are decent sized operation now - they seem to fill a neat market niche.
The new desalinators in the range don't offer anything new, that I can see - except you can take them home, or to another yacht (or plumb them in). They might have a commercial edge, don't know.
I had hoped they would combine the Honda powered desal unit to also switch to making power, electricity, (incorporate the standard Honda gen set) as then the engine would be much more cost effective - I dream to much
I did like the petrol driven model - simply because it offered a different option - and its the 21st Century where the idea of a shower once a week has lost its appeal. The latter is driven home as soon as you have your female daughter and granddaughters on board - they not only want your retired phones but they also want a shower twice a day - apparently its part of birthright! Obviously if you are not graced with female offspring - you might not know any of this.
If someone could, or has, developed a desal unit that could convert the energy of the moving yacht (prop/impellor) and use that energy directly to desalinate (and it is possible to produce 10 amps at 10 knots - enough, indirectly, to make 30l/hr) - has considerable appeal - if it is possible - and that was where this thread comes in - is it technically feasible?
No, we do not have a Rainman unit. Our Spectra unit is fine - but gobbles amps - though not quite as fast as a Rainman. If we needed to replace the Spectra we would very seriously look at the Honda driven Rainman, with 2 membranes) but not their electric range.
Jonathan
Here we are
https://www.rainmandesal.com
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JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Similarly sized towed generators give you 4A if you're lucky. 5 litres per hour through a reverse osmosis system with 50W sounds ... optimistic.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Most yachts are simply not able to develop sufficient speeds to allow a towed generator to develop reasonable power. We made smaller blades for our impeller as at speed the impellor skips. We have not sacrificed power at lower speeds - because we have a standard impeller for lower speeds. At 5-6 knots average boat speed the power produced is quite low, but increases, maybe, geometrically (to around 10 amps at 10 knots).
I'd have to agree with JD - and urge caution.
I note that the Watt N Sea 600 Cruising unit is much more effective, they say 10amps at 5.6 knots, - maybe proving that you can generate decent power at slower speeds - the downside being the WattnSea units are expensive, very, I think over 4,000 Euros + VAT.
The comparison off the WattnSea and our Aquagen4 does indicate better design or improvements in technology (or diffferent technology) - though whether this can be applied to desalination is the unknown question.
Jonathan
and again
https://www.wattandsea.com/en/products/cruising-hydrogenerators/hydro-cruising-600
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