Spyro
Well-Known Member
so what you're really after is other people sharing your boat ownership costs rather the cost sharing of a days sailing?
Is this allowed? paying crew.
- Thread starter Croak
- Start date
lw395
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure the amount you charge is key.
I think if you offered day sails to the general public at £5 a go, you still need to be coded.
I'm not sure how you define the cost of a day's sailing.
Is it just the diesel you've used that day, or does it include some fraction of the cost of the sails, which have a finite life?
Does it include a fraction of the cost of insurance, as the more you use the boat, the higher the risk of damage?
Plenty of racing crews split a lot of these costs, even if one of them nominally owns the boat.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Of course not! I happened to be looking at my photos a few minutes ago.....
Rigger Mortice
N/A
Forgive me if this has already been posted but this http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-ho...lcommercialvesselstandardscodesandsurveys.htm
shows the rules pretty clearly. You can charge based on the direct costs for that trip but no more. Fuel, food, marina fees are OK.
The boat is being operated commercially and therefore needs to be coded.
I wonder if it was wise to post those figures on a public forum?
shows the rules pretty clearly. You can charge based on the direct costs for that trip but no more. Fuel, food, marina fees are OK.
The boat is being operated commercially and therefore needs to be coded.
I wonder if it was wise to post those figures on a public forum?
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Croak
Well-Known Member
The Ebay ads have now disappeared.
Spyro
Well-Known Member
Stork_III
Well-Known Member
Web site still active including the spurious "Non-profit" statements.
Rigger Mortice
N/A
When I looked earlier he had changed his website and said he was checking out the legality of what he was doing. FWIW I'm sure that he was not deliberately ignoring the rules and genuinely thought that what he was doing was OK.
Stork_III
Well-Known Member
Yes he has suspended all "Availability" dates seeking clarification, but the information page is unchanged, including
Your contribution is also a frictional share toward the things that wear and tear with each sail of the boat such as sails, uv strip, spay hood, safety equipment, rigging, engine and outboard maintenance.
Not sure if that is a typo for fractional or fictional.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Who needs the MCA with the ever-vigilant YBW forums on duty?
Iain C
Well-Known Member
Good stuff that man. I doubt anyone here has any issue with him covering his costs (although perhaps the scale of those costs needs some thinking about...) but I'm sure we'd hate to see a fellow yottie fall foul of the law if it all went wrong, or be forced down a route of pointless increased bureaucracy, certification and expense when we just want to invite our mates down for a weekend's sailing and split food, beer and diesel with them.
lw395
Well-Known Member
The point is that they are your mates, you don't go touting for the general public to sail with you.
Elemental
Well-Known Member
jerrytug
N/A
Yes, these lace-curtain-twitching nosey parkers and internet hard-men should hopefully have achieved climax by now, so the guy will have a temporary respite.
William_H
Well-Known Member
Morally the whole question is based around the concept that if you pay for a service then you are entitled to think that the service is to a commercial standard.
Certainly he should at most only expect a donation at the end of the outing. Not take cash in advance. Certainly he should go to pains to point out that this concept (operation) is non commercial in every aspect including the proven standard of his boat and his skills.
As a matter of interest I use my boat for sail training. My yacht club takes cash in advance for the sailing. I get paid around 15 squid per hour for my efforts plus 5 squid per hour contribution towards keeping the boat. I take 3 or 4 people out for 3 hrs a few times each year.(perhaps 20 hrs per annum total) (they pay about 80 squid each for 3 hrs instruction 12 hrs practical on water plus book log book and certifficate at the end. There are a range of levels of courses but we mostly do crew and helm. This operation is under the auspices of Yachting Australia and is accepted by the local government authority (equivalent of MCA) as an exception to the requirement for coding and commercial skipper. For the privelidge of doing so, the boat gets inspected each year I get reaccredited every 2 years ( after a very rigorous qualification training and testing) and I pay for a specific insurance policy to cover the participants.
Certainly not a money making excercise it is lucky I enjoy it so much. olewill
Certainly he should at most only expect a donation at the end of the outing. Not take cash in advance. Certainly he should go to pains to point out that this concept (operation) is non commercial in every aspect including the proven standard of his boat and his skills.
As a matter of interest I use my boat for sail training. My yacht club takes cash in advance for the sailing. I get paid around 15 squid per hour for my efforts plus 5 squid per hour contribution towards keeping the boat. I take 3 or 4 people out for 3 hrs a few times each year.(perhaps 20 hrs per annum total) (they pay about 80 squid each for 3 hrs instruction 12 hrs practical on water plus book log book and certifficate at the end. There are a range of levels of courses but we mostly do crew and helm. This operation is under the auspices of Yachting Australia and is accepted by the local government authority (equivalent of MCA) as an exception to the requirement for coding and commercial skipper. For the privelidge of doing so, the boat gets inspected each year I get reaccredited every 2 years ( after a very rigorous qualification training and testing) and I pay for a specific insurance policy to cover the participants.
Certainly not a money making excercise it is lucky I enjoy it so much. olewill
awol
Well-Known Member
If there was no potential for harm then ignorance leading to flouting of bureaucratic red tape would cause all but the little Hitlers no concern. Unfortunately, taking people whose only qualification is desire (and £50 a day) to sea is fraught with potential problems and the regulations laid down, while pernickety in some detail, are there to ensure a minimum level of material and skill. This is not to say that the Solway Sailing guy's boat is not superbly equipped (the pictures are impressive) or that he is lacking any seamanship ability but coding and a Certificate of Competence are demanded to protect the numpties against floating death traps and Captain Calamities.
That the forum shows concern that he is putting himself into what could be a very expensive conflict with the law is natural and commendable; that there is concern over his passengers, equally so; and that if it was kosher, why hadn't we thought of it first? All the man has to do is code his boat and get a commercially endorsed C of C, small beer in terms of the overall cost of ownership of a boat, and I and I hope the rest of the forum would wish him luck.
chrisbitz
Well-Known Member
I hope the YBW keyboard warriors are very proud of themselves! They've already hounded the young girl off the forum, effectively lost the battle with Dylan, and now hounded a fellow yachtsman out of his pocket money making scheme. How DARE he try and make some money out of his hobby. You've clearly saved thousands of lives there through health and safety regulations!!
Disagreement is fine, but some of you guys, I wouldn't want you anywhere near me if was ever in trouble. You'd rather stand and pass judgement than actually help me!
Disagreement is fine, but some of you guys, I wouldn't want you anywhere near me if was ever in trouble. You'd rather stand and pass judgement than actually help me!
chrisbitz
Well-Known Member
+1 for tongue in cheekness!
Umm, that was a joke, right?
You don't think that the social inadequates didn't just see a potential victim, and charge in mob handed with their knives out?
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
It would have been a huge money losing scheme for him there had ever been a problem, and if a death, a liberty losing scheme as well. Marine incident related fines are often pretty big. The MCA have also had people prosecuted for manslaughter when there has been a death.
Iain C
Well-Known Member
Who ever said they didn't want him to keep doing what he is doing?
Keep going by all means, just approach it in a way where you are not leaving yourself open to prosecution if the doodoo hits the fan, or step it up to a proper commercial operation at modest coding/qualification expense and charge people more money...
Keep going by all means, just approach it in a way where you are not leaving yourself open to prosecution if the doodoo hits the fan, or step it up to a proper commercial operation at modest coding/qualification expense and charge people more money...