Is it worth networking a tiller pilot on a sailing boat?

[laika]

You are at risk of an accidental gybe steering to the compass but if thr boat adjusts it's course as the wind shift, you can't accidentally gybe

As several people have pointed out though, solo sailors aside, no sensible person is going to leave a boat to sail itself without someone on watch to decide whether to adjust course or (intentionally) gybe if the wind changes. If you’re running with the AP set to steeer-to-wind and no-one on watch, don’t you put yourself at *greater* risk from accidental gybes as the wind could drop and a wave could spin you round faster than the AP could respond?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Are there really plotters that will change course to next waypoint without user approval ? I thought it was Industry Agreed that Plotter would not alter course to next waypoint without user intervention after reaching preceding waypoint ?

All Raymarine Axioms from Lighthouse 4.4 and the latest Garm GPS Maps. You can of course turn the feature off or customise it's behaviour.

It's just another option, should one choose to use it. Same as steer to wind, auto routing etc, you don't have to use them.

 

[geem]

As several people have pointed out though, solo sailors aside, no sensible person is going to leave a boat to sail itself without someone on watch to decide whether to adjust course or (intentionally) gybe if the wind changes. If you’re running with the AP set to steeer-to-wind and no-one on watch, don’t you put yourself at *greater* risk from accidental gybes as the wind could drop and a wave could spin you round faster than the AP could respond?

Who ever suggested leaving the boat to its own devises.
I have never sailed on a boat where a wave spins me around and the autopilot can't cope, maybe I am missing out

 

[laika]

Who ever suggested leaving the boat to its own devises.

Obviously we agree but then equally you aren’t at risk of an accidental gybe on steer-to-bearing so long as an intelligent human is watching what’s happening and manually responding as necessary. I’m guessing this is how many of us use the AP: steer to bearing then constantly run round the deck tweaking sails or course steered.

 

[geem]

Obviously we agree but then equally you aren’t at risk of an accidental gybe on steer-to-bearing so long as an intelligent human is watching what’s happening and manually responding as necessary. I’m guessing this is how many of us use the AP: steer to bearing then constantly run round the deck tweaking sails or course steered.

But you run the risk of luffing up if you are sailing to weather or gybing when running DDW. This isn't an issue if you sail relative to the wind direction.
In my experience, a good autopilot is a far better helmsman than most sailors. The wind is dynamic and always moving around slightly but this isn't the same as a wind shift. The steering to wind function will look after the boat under normal dynamic wind changes and it will alarm if you get a wind shift.
This is how singlenhanded Imoca sailors sail. It's how all autopilot steered race boats sail. It's how we sail the boat on every passage other than motoring. Even coast passages of a few short miles, I would never steer to a compass course. Anybody who uses wind self steering does this as a matter of routine because that how they work

 

[laika]

But you run the risk of luffing up if you are sailing to weather or gybing when running DDW. This isn't an issue if you sail relative to the wind direction.

We’ve agreed I think that sensible AP use isn’t about letting the boat attend to itself it’s simply about letting the AP doing the steering freeing up the watch person to do things like sail trim. If I’m using the AP and the wind shifts such that I’m likely to gybe or luff I’ll either change course or tack/gybe, making a decision about what is the better call with respect to my overall intentions.

I understand the advantages, not least in terms of electrical power, of using a wind vane on a long offshore passage with no land effects. I accept a case for using an AP in wind mode if trying to make best course to windward (even if I don’t use it like that myself). I understand that it would be the chosen mode for a solo sailor while grabbing 40 winks. I do however question a notion that sailing to wind rather than bearing is the sensible norm for the type of passage making most of us here do.

 

[geem]

We’ve agreed I think that sensible AP use isn’t about letting the boat attend to itself it’s simply about letting the AP doing the steering freeing up the watch person to do things like sail trim. If I’m using the AP and the wind shifts such that I’m likely to gybe or luff I’ll either change course or tack/gybe, making a decision about what is the better call with respect to my overall intentions.

I understand the advantages, not least in terms of electrical power, of using a wind vane on a long offshore passage with no land effects. I accept a case for using an AP in wind mode if trying to make best course to windward (even if I don’t use it like that myself). I understand that it would be the chosen mode for a solo sailor while grabbing 40 winks. I do however question a notion that sailing to wind rather than bearing is the sensible norm for the type of passage making most of us here do.

I am not sure what type of sailing you do. You haven't said, but I have been sailing to the wind for as many years as I can remember. I didn't always do long distance sailing and not every passage is long distance. There are lots of short sails in between. I still never sail to a compass coursesince I like to sail efficiently and I can't see how you can do that unless the sail trim is matched to the angle the sails make with the wind

 

[Malish]

All Raymarine Axioms from Lighthouse 4.4 and the latest Garm GPS Maps. You can of course turn the feature off or customise it's behaviour.

It's just another option, should one choose to use it. Same as steer to wind, auto routing etc, you don't have to use them.

I suspect a bit of confusion has crept in regarding the definition of an autopilot vs a chart plotter.

 

[noelex]

Setting the autopilot to wind is useful. Personally, I don’t find other integrated modes such as steering to a waypoint to be of any practical value on a sailboat.

The most useful accessory is a wireless remote control. With this, the steering mode is relatively unimportant (wind or heading), but this is not an accessory typically available on tiller pilot, even with integration.

Our autopilot spends half its time steering to a compass course (this requires no integration) and 50% steering to wind (this requires information from the wind sensor). This is for an underdeck autopilot where integration is easy (and essential). For a tiller pilot, I am not sure I would bother with the complication of integration.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I suspect a bit of confusion has crept in regarding the definition of an autopilot vs a chart plotter.

I don't think so, the thread is about networking an autopilot. On it's own, the AP just follows a heading. If you want it to steer to wind it needs wind data, for waypoints and routes it need data for those, usually from a plotter. It's the plotter that controls the AP to steer to a waypoint and to turn to the next waypoint.

This was no different in the case of older APs, such as a ST4000 connected to a C series classic etc, just that with those you had to manually confirm the turn to the next waypoint.

 

[potentillaCO32]

I have the most basic tillerpilot and just press the auto button when she is pointing in roughly the right direvtion according to the course i've worked out on the chart plotter. The odd + or minus button if it needs adjusting or i take manual control.
Personally, would not want to integrate with a chartplotter.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

On a long passage, mainly under engine, I found steering to waypoints very useful. Even a long passage on a constant bearing could usefully be split up into chunks to give an indication of progress. The system I had did not automatically change course without user intervention, so there was no question of an unexpected change of course.

I haven't tried using it to steer a course with respect to wind, mainly because I prefer to steer myself under sail.

 

[laika]

I can't see how you can do that unless the sail trim is matched to the angle the sails make with the wind

As previously stated, I’ll let the AP steer and I’ll constantly trim to match the wind on the course I want to make. I’m guessing that’s how many of us use an autopilot. And angle of attack is only one factor in sail trim so sailing to wind doesn’t obviate the need to trim sails to conditions.

 

[stuartwineberg]

But you run the risk of luffing up if you are sailing to weather or gybing when running DDW. This isn't an issue if you sail relative to the wind direction.
In my experience, a good autopilot is a far better helmsman than most sailors. The wind is dynamic and always moving around slightly but this isn't the same as a wind shift. The steering to wind function will look after the boat under normal dynamic wind changes and it will alarm if you get a wind shift.
This is how singlenhanded Imoca sailors sail. It's how all autopilot steered race boats sail. It's how we sail the boat onmeverympassagemother than motoring. Even coast passagesmof a few short miles, I would never steer to a compass course. Anybody who uses wind self steering does this as a matter of routine because that how they work

Agree with all of this, we are ageing and sail short handed. Anything that reduces what scuba divers call task loading and lets you get on with the job of lookout, trimming, planning or whatever gets my vote. It’s also a great way to keep the boat head to wind while we get a very heavy main up.

 

[john_morris_uk]

As previously stated, I’ll let the AP steer and I’ll constantly trim to match the wind on the course I want to make. I’m guessing that’s how many of us use an autopilot. And angle of attack is only one factor in sail trim so sailing to wind doesn’t obviate the need to trim sails to conditions.

Exactly. If we’re on a long passage then the Hydrovane steers us to wind. (Bit snakey wake downwind but works surprisingly well.)

If it’s a short passage and we’re hard on the wind then I’ll hand steer.

Off the wind it’s autopilot on and I’m not sure I care if the sail trim is 95% rather than 100% some of the time. Difference in boat speed can’t be detected. But then we’re a big fat cruising boat weighing 11 or 12 tonnes.

 

[geem]

On a long passage, mainly under engine, I found steering to waypoints very useful. Even a long passage on a constant bearing could usefully be split up into chunks to give an indication of progress. The system I had did not automatically change course without user intervention, so there was no question of an unexpected change of course.

I haven't tried using it to steer a course with respect to wind, mainly because I prefer to steer myself under sail.

No overnight passages then?
When you can't see the sails, it's hard to sail a good course at night. The wind sensor is your best friend. We usually flick the deck lights on so we can trim with the telltale and that will do us for a few hours if we are in open water and the wind isn't shifting.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

No overnight passages then?
When you can't see the sails, it's hard to sail a good course at night. The wind sensor is your best friend. We usually flick the deck lights on so we can trim with the telltale and that will do us for a few hours if we are in open water and the wind isn't shifting.

White sails show up well at night once your eyes are fully dark adapted. But to achieve that it's vital that all sources of light in the crew's eyeline are as dim as possible; even instrument lights on their lowest setting can be too bright. My ST60 instruments are only just dim enough on their lowest setting.

I've never had a problem seeing the sails at night.

 

[geem]

White sails show up well at night once your eyes are fully dark adapted. But to achieve that it's vital that all sources of light in the crew's eyeline are as dim as possible; even instrument lights on their lowest setting can be too bright. My ST60 instruments are only just dim enough on their lowest setting.

I've never had a problem seeing the sails at night.

I can see the sails but I can't see the telltales. Big difference

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I can see the sails but I can't see the telltales. Big difference

Yes, but although telltales are helpful, they aren't essential. I learnt to sail before they were usual, and don't rely on them. I probably lose a small amount, but that's not important on passage.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I've used a tiller pilot connected to Raymarine network, ever since it was first introduced by Autohelm, way back in distant history.
I currently sail a 46ft yacht mostly single handed, and couldn't do that without an autopilot connected to the instruments and chart plotters.
I use all the functions, especially sailing to the wind angle. If the wind isn't to shifty, it can do a better job than I can, it doesn't get tired or board.
Going to windward, in gusty conditions, with the foresail pinned in, letting the autopilot steer, whilst I trim the main. Easing it in the gust and trimming it back in as the gust eases. It follows the shifts well.
It doesn’t work that well on a board reach in similar conditions. It can't anticipate the gusts, I can, and that makes a big difference increasing boat speed by a knot or so.
I've also used goto a waypoint, route following, to navigate complex passages, ie the inshore passage around Lands End, or into Loch Tarbert Jura.
It also works well on longer passages, crossing the Bristol Channel, the Moray Firth, Stromness to Cape Wrath, for example. Very little traffic, time to get food and a hot drink and relax a bit.
My take is that a fully integrated autopilot, instrument set, and multifunction plotter and definitely the "best thing since sliced bread".