Is it still worth carrying flares?

prv said:
I still choose to carry hand, rocket, and smoke flares.

I can see a reasonable argument for ditching the rockets and perhaps the smoke in favour of electronic means, but I'd always want the hand flares for last-mile position indication as well as confirmation to a bystander that this really is a distress situation. I don't believe a laser would be recognised as such, though it should work for a SAR unit already looking and aware it's being used.

The flares are stored in the liferaft grab bag, plus there's one hand-flare in the dinghy kit strapped to the inside of the transom. If I ever get swept out to sea in it, I don't want passing boats to assume I'm just one of those leisure fishermen too far out in an undersized boat.

I suggest those who are scared of flares (and note I don't assume everyone who chooses not to carry them is "scared") fire a recently-expired hand-flare in their back garden some time. It's really not that big a deal, and demystifying the process is a good idea.

Pete
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Please don't.

I have spent a significant amount of my time responding to a reported flare sighting after some one thought it was a good idea to see how they work.
 
Uricanejack said:
I have spent a significant amount of my time responding to a reported flare sighting after some one thought it was a good idea to see how they work.
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Did you miss the part where I wrote hand flare?

None of my neighbours are daft enough to mistake the patio in my suburban back garden for a ship in distress, and nobody else can see it.

Obviously rocket flares should not be set off except in emergency or a carefully organised test or demo. If nothing else they're a potential fire risk over land.

I have experienced someone else setting off a smoke flare on land; it wasn't dangerous as such but it was quite a nuisance and the smoke stained things orange. I wouldn't let those off in a populated or public place, though paintball sites do it in woodland they own without inconveniencing anyone else.

Pete
 
My work ship, despite having a very well trained and equipped crew, still carries more flares than we need for our coding even though we also have VHF / MF / HF / Sat comms, EPIRBs, SARTs, PLBs, 4 different firefighting systems, 4 separate flooding control systems, three life rafts and two lifeboats.

Do you know why we carry all those flares? Because they work. They’re tried, tested and pretty reliable. People know what they’re looking at and what to do if they see a red rocket.
 
mm42 said:
My work ship, despite having a very well trained and equipped crew, still carries more flares than we need for our coding even though we also have VHF / MF / HF / Sat comms, EPIRBs, SARTs, PLBs, 4 different firefighting systems, 4 separate flooding control systems, three life rafts and two lifeboats.

Do you know why we carry all those flares? Because they work. They’re tried, tested and pretty reliable. People know what they’re looking at and what to do if they see a red rocket.
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That's fair enough , you have a crew who know how to use them ,
but how many people have them on board who never held one in there life's , or even seen them work .
People buy them , read the instructions, then tuck them away hoping never to have to use them , until one day they decided to check the date . I not sure in them circumstances on a dark night , when the shi@t hit the fan , that same flare becomes more of a danger then a aid .
 
mm42 said:
Do you know why we carry all those flares? Because they work. They’re tried, tested and pretty reliable. People know what they’re looking at and what to do if they see a red rocket.
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Do you have any hard evidence that flares have been the sole method of communication in a rescue situation? This is not the view of many in the rescue services nor in the RYA who have been lobbying the MCA to remove the compulsion for pleasure vessels.

I find it very difficult to accept your statement that people (in general) know what they are looking at and know what to do. Add to that people no longer look out to sea in the way they did in the past and modern methods of communication are both instant and directed at those who can help rather than random in the hope that somebody "who knows..." will see them and react.
 
mm42 said:
Do you know why we carry all those flares? Because they work. They’re tried, tested and pretty reliable. People know what they’re looking at and what to do if they see a red rocket.
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The fact that rocket flares have been superseded for communication in every field except distress and are almost never used in that context demonstrates they absolutely don't reliably work.
 
Mark-1 said:
The fact that rocket flares have been superseded for communication in every field except distress and are almost never used in that context demonstrates they absolutely don't reliably work.
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It does not demonstrate that, it demonstrates that other methods of communication have become more efficient. My pyros will work when I have no other means of indicating distress.
 
sailaboutvic said:
That's fair enough , you have a crew who know how to use them ,
but how many people have them on board who never held one in there life's , or even seen them work .
People buy them , read the instructions, then tuck them away hoping never to have to use them , until one day they decided to check the date . I not sure in them circumstances on a dark night , when the shi@t hit the fan , that same flare becomes more of a danger then a aid .
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Quite right.
 
>fire a recently-expired hand-flare in their back garden some time.

Beware of firing expired flares we did in Lagos, Portugal under the supervision of the Coastguard and told to wear gloves, a parachute flare exploded in a man's hand.
 
Please excuse the drift (slight):-
I am amazed that there is little or no facility for the general boating population to learn how to use flares (how to, not why).

I am "guilty" for having let-off a lot of flares in the past, especially on 5th November, so I am confident firing a rocket flare, hand-held etc.

However, when I asked a local coastguard if a demonstration and familiarisation event could be held locally, for boaters, fishermen, firemen etc., he said it could not be allowed.

Seems to me that the first time most boaters are going to experience the system it well be too late to learn how to do it properly and safely.

With the above in mind, it seems there is little point in the great majority of those who "go out on the water" carrying pyrotechnic flares.

I hope that my regularly expiring flare packs keep doing just that - expiring unused.
But I know what to do in an emergency, 'cos I've done it many times (ashore).
 
Mark-1 said:
If they work, why do you have the other means? Wouldn't you use the thing that worked first?

I suspect in the case of flares you've chosen a pretty loose definition of 'work'!
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It’s obvious from my post to you why I use other means, more efficient. My definition of ‘work’ is not different from the common understanding of the word.

Pyros would not be my first choice as I have better options by far, but they still remain an option.
 
Many, many years ago, we were at a friends bonfire night when he decided to let off a parachute flare - very impressive - and it was out of date. We also let off out of date hand flares, which were the 'twist and bang the end' type, which were difficult to fire, if you were in a rubber dinghy it would have been impossible, my wife could not do it banging against a log! I even found it difficult. My current ones are 'pull the string' type, look a lot easier but not tested in anger(or on bonfire night!).
 
The Admiral had always had a bit of a thing about pyrotechnics. In her opinion they were boys toys and she didn’t want to have anything to do with them. I’ve always used the bonfire night disposal route for flares and smokes; she resolutely refused to try one. Then we went to a safety day at the local chandlers and there was a flares demo laid on by the local coastguard folks, with the opportunity to use pyrotechnics under supervision by someone other than me.
The Admiral now understands how the things work, their dangers and strengths. She’s no longer frightened of them but does respect them.
So, we carry them as a matter of course, along with an EPIRB, PLBs, DSC VHF and mobile phones. I’ll use any and all methods of letting folks know I need help in a hurry when I need it.
 
duncan99210 said:
The Admiral had always had a bit of a thing about pyrotechnics. In her opinion they were boys toys and she didn’t want to have anything to do with them. I’ve always used the bonfire night disposal route for flares and smokes; she resolutely refused to try one. Then we went to a safety day at the local chandlers and there was a flares demo laid on by the local coastguard folks, with the opportunity to use pyrotechnics under supervision by someone other than me.
The Admiral now understands how the things work, their dangers and strengths. She’s no longer frightened of them but does respect them.
So, we carry them as a matter of course, along with an EPIRB, PLBs, DSC VHF and mobile phones. I’ll use any and all methods of letting folks know I need help in a hurry when I need it.
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That's good to hear, in all respects.

NormanS: Shades of "All is Lost" :eek:
 
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