Is it possible to save [15%] on a new hull by buying directly from a builder at a boat show?

[SouthWales]

That's my understanding as well.
If the equivalent of fleet in boating is charter type boats, why isn't anyone doing it?
Wasn't VW taken to court recently for running an oligopoly between dealers at the expense of the consumer?

 

[Garold]

High discounts are difficult to find on brand new boats.

Boat show offers combined with some dealer support from the manufacturer can get you to a good price at a show, and occasionally we have been offered good prices on models that are about to be replaced. Stock boats that have been with a dealer for a while are also sometimes more negotiable - this requires a bit of research and lots of calls to dealers.

Another thought is nearly new boats. They come up more frequently that you’d imagine as people buy the wrong boat for their needs or just get really enthusiastic and want to upgrade after the first year of ownership. I’ve noticed that they usually sell quite quickly but often at a significant discount to the new price.

I noticed the OP mention Beneteau/Jeaneau. As far as I know, they always staff the stand with dealers and the Beneteau staff are mainly there to build relationships with their dealers or to occasionally confirm such details as delivery slots If the dealer has a query.

 

[[178529]]

Thanks for that. I thought builders have their own stands at major shows like Dusseldorf. So they sell directly to customers/visitors I wonder?

No. The manufacturers will man the stand with dealers. They can't work without dealers and won't undercut them. As someone whose business imported a range of yachts many years ago there is no way a manufacturer would sell direct if there was a dealer near the customer.
There is a high margin in boats but there has to be. The cost of marketing and boat shows is enormous and the number sold is relatively low.

It's a bit cheapskate wanting to save a few quid and go direct.

 

[SouthWales]

No need for value judgements here. I manage my pocket and you do yours.

Now this industry is ready for disruption. Not sure if it's a "dreamyacht" time sharing kind of model (with direct sourcing from builders) or something else, but those fat margin (and depreciation) are one of the main reasons boating is in continuous decline in Europe.

 

[ontheplane]

The “fat margin” you allude to. Where exactly?

Say a dealer has a 30% margin on a 60k boat, that is £18k margin, you’ll get a bit of discount (say £2k) so that leaves 16k.

Let’s say the dealer sells 20 of those per year that’s a gross profit of 320k - but look at the stocking costs, salespeople, expensive premises on marinas - I promise you, as a percentage of turnover I don’t think they make that much......... I used to import boats and gave it up, we barely made a profit once all the costs were taken into account. Very low volumes....

Only the big boys like Boats.co.uk (formerly Essex boatyards) and a few others have the volume to make the serious money

 

[ontheplane]

The industry is in decline because most manufacturers have abandoned boat sales normal people can afford. Once an entry level Sealine was a 19ft that your average Joe can afford - now it’s 33ft and as dear as a typical 3 bed semi.

As house prices become unaffordable unless you already own one, most young people dream of buying their first house by the time they are 40 - whereas before you did it in your twenties.

Boats have become too dear, and fewer people have that much spare cash - it has gone from a well off persons hobby to a rich persons hobby

 

[[178529]]

Like ontheplane our margins were similar and needed to support the business and customers post sale.

I think you are also wrong in your swinging 'continuous decline of boating industry in Europe'. There was huge damage done in 2009, as there was to many consumer markets but there has been steady growth in sailing yacht sales and more particularly motorboat sales since 2013.

 

[MapisM]

those fat margin (and depreciation) are one of the main reasons boating is in continuous decline in Europe.

I tend to agree with that.
But do you think to have an even slight chance to change that?
If yes, "dream on" has to be my short answer.

 

[Bouba]

At the boat show, the dealer might also show you some advantageous financing that can also shave a percent or two from the total

 

[Sticky Fingers]

No need for value judgements here. I manage my pocket and you do yours.

Now this industry is ready for disruption. Not sure if it's a "dreamyacht" time sharing kind of model (with direct sourcing from builders) or something else, but those fat margin (and depreciation) are one of the main reasons boating is in continuous decline in Europe.

And your solution is... what?

 

[ari]

Now this industry is ready for disruption. Not sure if it's a "dreamyacht" time sharing kind of model (with direct sourcing from builders) or something else, but those fat margin (and depreciation) are one of the main reasons boating is in continuous decline in Europe.

Then step in and 'disrupt', if you've found a magical gap that no one else in the industry has spotted for magical cheap boats with slim margins and magical lack of depreciation. Good luck!

 

[alt]

At the boat show, the dealer might also show you some advantageous financing that can also shave a percent or two from the total

Is finance that common? I'd never dream of buying a luxury item like a car / boat on finance, maybe it's just me?

Granted, I was 25 when I bought my current boat (Smeraldo 37), so even if I did want to finance, don't think a finance house would touch me. I'm sure some-day i'll want to change boats, but I can't imagine my thoughts would be "sure i'll put it on finance".

 

[ari]

The industry is in decline because most manufacturers have abandoned boat sales normal people can afford. Once an entry level Sealine was a 19ft that your average Joe can afford - now it’s 33ft and as dear as a typical 3 bed semi.

Companies like Sealine have abandoned the 19ft and up boat market for 33ft and above because it's simply not possible to compete with mass producers like Jeanneau and Beneteau.

The alternative is to hang on in there like Westerly, Moody etc did in the yacht market against the onslaught of mass produced cheaper alternatives from the French, and end up the same way.

Bust.

 

[Durley245]

The “fat margin” you allude to. Where exactly?

Say a dealer has a 30% margin on a 60k boat, that is £18k margin, you’ll get a bit of discount (say £2k) so that leaves 16k.

Let’s say the dealer sells 20 of those per year that’s a gross profit of 320k - but look at the stocking costs, salespeople, expensive premises on marinas - I promise you, as a percentage of turnover I don’t think they make that much......... I used to import boats and gave it up, we barely made a profit once all the costs were taken into account. Very low volumes....

Only the big boys like Boats.co.uk (formerly Essex boatyards) and a few others have the volume to make the serious money

Certainly not Essex boatyards. They caused a lot of the problems and have a lot to answer for particularly for main dealers at the time
in the early 1990s of whenever it was they first appeared on the scene by totally de - valuing boat prices both new and second hand whilst being propped up by some Russian billionaire.

 

[ontheplane]

Companies like Sealine have abandoned the 19ft and up boat market for 33ft and above because it's simply not possible to compete with mass producers like Jeanneau and Beneteau.

The alternative is to hang on in there like Westerly, Moody etc did in the yacht market against the onslaught of mass produced cheaper alternatives from the French, and end up the same way.

Bust.

I agree it’s hard to make the smaller boats profitably, but if Jeanneau / Beneteau can, why cant they?

 

[SouthWales]

I have been thinking about what you said and wonder what it takes to be come a dealer? Can anyone approach a Beneteau with a small balance sheet and ask for dealership?

Or even better, can a yacht club have a collective agreement to source directly on behalf of its members?

 

[Bouba]

Is finance that common? I'd never dream of buying a luxury item like a car / boat on finance, maybe it's just me?

Granted, I was 25 when I bought my current boat (Smeraldo 37), so even if I did want to finance, don't think a finance house would touch me. I'm sure some-day i'll want to change boats, but I can't imagine my thoughts would be "sure i'll put it on finance".

For example, in France, boat finance costs less than paying in cash. Plus the dealer gets an extra cut, and there is insurance thrown in. I can’t remember all the details but the boat dealer will and the finance companies will also be represented at the boat show.

 

[[178529]]

I have been thinking about what you said and wonder what it takes to be come a dealer? Can anyone approach a Beneteau with a small balance sheet and ask for dealership?

Or even better, can a yacht club have a collective agreement to source directly on behalf of its members?

First of all there would have to be a gap in the market of coverage in there area. Or they would have to be unhappy with their existing dealership for the area.

Then they would check background and financial viability. Experience and success in selling similar. They would also want to understand. Technical abilities.premesis. . Installing extras, delivery, repairs, warranty work etc etc. Most importantly trust and do they see the new dealership supporting the brand objectives. Review of marketing and sales plans. Liability and indemnity insurances.

They are also likely to want to see an upfront financial commitment in terms of some stock. We had to.

The idea of a yacht club wanting to get involved in any of that is not practical.

 

[Boat2016]

I have been thinking about what you said and wonder what it takes to be come a dealer? Can anyone approach a Beneteau with a small balance sheet and ask for dealership?

Or even better, can a yacht club have a collective agreement to source directly on behalf of its members?

I’m sure if you find an area where that builder is not already represented, sign up to an agreement for x amount of boats per year and support said builder with boat shows etc you will probably be in with a chance...just thinking you can walk in and get a cheap boat would probably be highly unlikely.

If you feel your yacht club is entitled to a deal then ask the question but then how many orders do you seriously think the club members will place ? there’s very few new boats when you look at most yacht club moorings.

Perhaps if you can’t afford the new boat you want then a used example is the best option.

 

[SouthWales]

So I belong to a member-run tennis club - the club belongs to (is affiliated with) something called the LTA. Think of it as an association of tennis clubs across Britain.
LTA is terrific, they provide knowhow, cheap insurance (collective bargaining), dead cheap tennis balls, rackets and other disposables (again, collective bargaining), wimbledon tickets, leagues, junior talent spotting, etc....

Is there such a thing with Yacht clubs? if not, why not? 1000s of members have a big say when buying boats collectively.

I can already imagine that I am turning in circles to understand what Loic Bonnet has already figured out many years ago...but I feel that this part of the process of learning about a new industry an understanding where value and leakage are.

edit: I have heard about the RYA and am surprised why they would do not do any collective bargaining.