Is it normal to ask for a deposit & sign a contract before testing engine?

[Tranona]

Tranona are you a yacht surveyor?

No.

 

[Crabman]

I reckon you are . What's your company called .Go on say yes and admit it . It will make you feel better honest.

 

[KINGFISHER 8]

Presumably the broker would still insist on a deposit and contract even if the owner was there and the boat was in the water. And what if you're interested in 3 boats and want to buy the best one? You have to go through this rigmarole 3 times?

 

[Crabman]

Why are you such an obnoxious person? I have answered your impertinent question honestly because I am an honest person.

Now now , get back in your pram, there's a good lad.. They say the truth hurts , and you have just answered my question and you have quoted honest two many times in your reply. Have a good day surveying. Please sir may I have another.

 

[Tranona]

Now now , get back in your pram, there's a good lad.. They say the truth hurts , and you have just answered my question . Have a good day surveying.

Will you please desist from telling lies about me.

I have answered your question. I am not and never have been a surveyor and will not spend today or any day surveying anything.

 

[Tranona]

Presumably the broker would still insist on a deposit and contract even if the owner was there and the boat was in the water. And what if you're interested in 3 boats and want to buy the best one? You have to go through this rigmarole 3 times?

One of the risks of buying a boat, knowing when to make a commitment. Signing a contract does not signify just interest it is an intention to buy - subject to.... That ensures the seller will not sell to somebody else while you carry out your checks and the seller knows that if the boat is as described the deal will go through.

 

[Crabman]

Well have a good day i,m off sailing. Slater.

 

[Tranona]

It's a question you idiot. You reckon i,m obnoxious because I have asked a question.

No you are just obnoxious because first it is no concern of yours what I do and second because I have answered your question.

 

[Crabman]

No you are just obnoxious because first it is no concern of yours what I do and second because I have answered your question.

That's weird , I was having a chinwag about forums and your name was mentioned ,Tranona , I did laugh ,they said ,yeah he's a surveyor ,his head is right up where the sun doesn't shine , there words not mine . And it's true with your comments . Slater mate.

 

[Twister_Ken]

That's weird , I was having a chinwag about forums and your name was mentioned ,Tranona , I did laugh ,they said ,yeah he's a surveyor ,his head is right up where the sun doesn't shine , there words not mine . And it's true with your comments . Slater mate.

They must have been talking about another Tranona then. This one has more sense than to become a yacht surveyor.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I reckon you are . What's your company called .Go on say yes and admit it . It will make you feel better honest.

Why on earth would you think that? And since when has "yacht surveyor" been an insult, anyway?

 

[Lakesailor]

When brokers are involved you practically have to sign a contract and pay a deposit before you can even look at the boat. Nobody knows why. If the broker or the owner is not prepared to run the engine for you (too many risks in doing it yourself, as other have noted) then ask yourself why they are so reluctant. If you are keen on the boat you could always make an offer based on an assumed need to replace the engine, and tell the broker so.

Can you imagine how it would work when buying a car?

Customer: I'm interested in the Golf on your forecourt
Dealer: Certainly sir. Have you had a look at it?
Customer: Yes, through the windows, but I'd like to have a look inside and under the bonnet
Dealer: Fine, but first you have to make me an offer for it, sign a contract and pay a deposit
Customer: What?
Dealer: That's how we do it. You make an offer based on what it would worth if the bits you can't see are in the condition you think they're in, then if you find a provblem we'll consider reducing the price, maybe, or letting you pull out of the deal, perhaps.
Customer: And a test drive?
Dealer: Of course not. You can read the reviews online. Now, are you going to sign and pay or not?

http://www.british-car-auctions.co.uk/

http://www.ukcarbroker.co.uk/Used-Cars

Owner: Hello, I'd like you to sell my car for me
Broker: Certainly sir. We'll advertise it, take car of all the paperwork and make sure that nobody is allowed to look at it closely without agreeing to buy it first.

Please note that I am not knocking brokers per se, and I am sure the good ones do a useful job. However, I think the boating world has got to the stage of accepting some very, very bizarre notions as the norm. How would you feel if you were thinking of buying a boat from a private seller, asked him to start the engine and were told "not until you sign a binding contract and pay a deposit".

I fully agree with you and have had this "discussion" on here before.

We will now be "shown" how we are completely wrong.

 

[jwilson]

Presumably the broker would still insist on a deposit and contract even if the owner was there and the boat was in the water. And what if you're interested in 3 boats and want to buy the best one? You have to go through this rigmarole 3 times?

Of course the owner would start the engine if he was there, the boat was afloat and the engine was not winterised. As a broker I will also usually start an engine if asked in the same circumstances, as long as I am confident it is in commission and I know where the seacocks etc. are - as I usually do.

The whole tenor of this thread seems to be that the nasty wicked evil underhand brokers are concealing something in order to make poor defenceless buyers sign paperwork and put down deposits before starting engines. We really (in general) are not. We want to make the sale go through, and the very last thing I want is a typical 4-6 week period with the boat off the market until the buyer pulls out because he finds something wrong on survey, and we have to start from scratch to sell the boat again. The deposit and sale agreement takes the boat off the market. A buyer is only a buyer, and the broker only gets paid, once the sale actually completes.

I therefore try very hard to predict what a surveyor will say, and tell the buyers my thoughts. I will tell buyers if the engine made blue smoke on starting (ie many older Volvos and others) but thereafter ran fine when afloat. I will tell them that there are high moisture levels in the hull, if that is the case. Even if the engine is slow to start, belches black smoke and oil, letting the buyer see that (or telling him that if the boat is ashore), is good, as he will be able to make an offer bearing that in mind. But I still won't start an engine that does not belong to me ashore.

 

[KellysEye]

The problem looks like you wanted to run the engine ashore, if I was the owner I wouldn't let you do that. As said normally you pay a deposit and sign a contract subject to survey and a trial sail, obviously you have to use the engine.

 

[Crabman]

expletive deleted by Full Circle Pete

Blimey it's windy out there ,are you saying that's your new user name ? If it is good on ya mate.

 

[struth]

Thanks for all that folks. As ever different strokes for different folks. I guess the thing that I would finish off on is that boat salesmen (aka brokers) perhaps rely too much on routines, systems and contracts rather than pukka interpersonal skills in trying to assess needs, weeding out 'fender kickers' (love that phrase) and actually asking buyers 'what must I do to clinch this sale'. I'm thinking sometimes what actually is the benefit of going thru a broker - the best person to sell you a boat is the owner. Broker websites are pretty ****e (I do like the Ancasta one though) at least they have some vendor input. These days it's pretty easy to knock up your own site to sell your boat - photos will be better, data more accurate and you don't have to pay a wallet-emptying commission. So, anyone out there with an AWB to sell £30-£50k plmk via private email thingy.

 

[KINGFISHER 8]

Of course the owner would start the engine if he was there, the boat was afloat and the engine was not winterised. As a broker I will also usually start an engine if asked in the same circumstances, as long as I am confident it is in commission and I know where the seacocks etc. are - as I usually do.

The whole tenor of this thread seems to be that the nasty wicked evil underhand brokers are concealing something in order to make poor defenceless buyers sign paperwork and put down deposits before starting engines. We really (in general) are not. We want to make the sale go through, and the very last thing I want is a typical 4-6 week period with the boat off the market until the buyer pulls out because he finds something wrong on survey, and we have to start from scratch to sell the boat again. The deposit and sale agreement takes the boat off the market. A buyer is only a buyer, and the broker only gets paid, once the sale actually completes.

I therefore try very hard to predict what a surveyor will say, and tell the buyers my thoughts. I will tell buyers if the engine made blue smoke on starting (ie many older Volvos and others) but thereafter ran fine when afloat. I will tell them that there are high moisture levels in the hull, if that is the case. Even if the engine is slow to start, belches black smoke and oil, letting the buyer see that (or telling him that if the boat is ashore), is good, as he will be able to make an offer bearing that in mind. But I still won't start an engine that does not belong to me ashore.[/QUOTE
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I know you're not a nasty wicked evil underhand broker John ... you've sold a boat for me, and very well but, there still seems to be no way around checking 3 boats without doing the deposit/contract routine.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I know you're not a nasty wicked evil underhand broker John ... you've sold a boat for me, and very well but, there still seems to be no way around checking 3 boats without doing the deposit/contract routine.

When I was looking for my current boat, I viewed one in Scotland which had some nice features (recent new engine, low use) and some potentially bad ones (teak deak with water coming through it, perhaps). So I said to the broker that before I went any further I wanted a surveyor to have a look at the deck - not to dismantle anything, not to do a survey, just to look at the deck, as I had looked at the deck but with expertise. I was left in no doubt that this was wholly, totally unacceptable, and that the surveyor would not be allowed on board until I had signed a contract and handed over cash.

That's just bizarre to me. Mind you, the broker's advert also said that the boat was kept constantly maintained when in fact it was covered with green mould and, as he admitted when I saw it, hadn't been touched for several years.

I bought another one of the same type through a much nicer broker elsewhere.

 

[stevd]

For me, if I was selling my boat through a broker, I certainly wouldn't want some potential buyer putting a hose pipe up its inlet and running up the engine. The chances are, that they haven't a clue what they are doing. I would on the other hand, let a boat yard mechanic that I trusted run up the engine, using a hose and a bucket run up the engine at they buyers expense. Or if I really trusted the broker, as there are a few I do, I would also let them run up the engine, if they were happy to do so. But certainly not let just anyone who was interested.

 

[jwilson]

When I was looking for my current boat, I viewed one in Scotland which had some nice features (recent new engine, low use) and some potentially bad ones (teak deak with water coming through it, perhaps). So I said to the broker that before I went any further I wanted a surveyor to have a look at the deck - not to dismantle anything, not to do a survey, just to look at the deck, as I had looked at the deck but with expertise. I was left in no doubt that this was wholly, totally unacceptable, and that the surveyor would not be allowed on board until I had signed a contract and handed over cash.

That's just bizarre to me. Mind you, the broker's advert also said that the boat was kept constantly maintained when in fact it was covered with green mould and, as he admitted when I saw it, hadn't been touched for several years.

I bought another one of the same type through a much nicer broker elsewhere.

I am a broker, and when I was buying a boat for myself I found pretty much just what I wanted listed with another broker. I arranged for a surveyor to look briefly and specifically at one area of the hull structure (where I had my own doubts after viewing the boat myself) before making an offer and putting down a deposit. This was via a large but now out of business brokerage. The broker was told exactly what my concerns were, and the surveyor's short visit was done with their agreement. As it happened he agreed with my suspicions and I did not buy that boat.

With the boats we list on brokerage ourselves ( http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/ ), if a potential buyer is a very long way away from the boat, we often SUGGEST that buyers get a surveyor to have a brief look over on their behalf and report back on the general condition by phone - it is often cheaper than their own travel costs to view. This is however a viewing, not a survey, and if the surveyor's verbal report confirms that the boat is as we describe it, then it becomes worthwhile for them to travel to see themselves.

A surveyors 15-30 minute look-over will often pick up more valid knowledge of the boat's overall condition than a few hours of some buyer's own inspections.