Is cutter rig worth it?

[Rivers & creeks]

We need to increase sail area! We haven't reefed yet, we were out twice in solid F6's over the summer and bowled along happily - nice but indicative of being very under canvassed, we've added a big chute for off wind sailing but need more beating and reaching canvas. The mast is rigged to take a cutter rig but the base of the inner jib will need to come forward, giving a foot measurement of 9' and a luff of 27'. The inner jib will be approx 7' back from the genoa and set at a very similar angle. Tacking isn't an issue, we know it will make it harder but we either do passages with very few tacks or we motor sail, or often we just happily drift along at 3knots in our local rivers.

Does the inner jib adversely effect any slot between the main and the genoa? There's not much of an overlap on The Kipper, and the clew of the inner jib wouldn't come aft of the mast as we'd make it self tacking so as to keep it to a single winch because of layout issues.

Thanks for your advice!

 

[robmcg]

It has been done. There is a Colvic Watson in Southdown (Plymouth) that was converted from a ketch to a cutter by its owner. I believe it was done primarily to improve pointing ability. The main mast was moved and new chain plates installed. It was nicely done by a very knowledgable owner. In your case, you would need to replace the genoa with a sail cut more akin to a Yankee or you may find you collapse the staysail when going upwind. I am not sure that adding the staysail will add useable speed to the boat but may well dial in a bit of weather or lee helm into your steering. We have a cutter rig and I must admit the staysail doesn't add masses of extra speed in most conditions. I am sure others will different experiences. No definitive answer on this one.

 

[AndrewB]

I like a cutter rig because the sail areas are smaller and more easily handled, and there is more versatility in sail combinations. But never to improve performance. The normal setup is a Yankee genoa, that is cut high, with the staysail filling in the missing area.

 

[chinita]

I agree.

I had a 25 ton cutter rigged ketch. Genoa was high cut Yankee and the boat was a delight to handle in all conditions.

Prior to that I had a HR36 which someone convinced me to bin the cruising chute and increase the genoa to 160%. A massive mistake.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

The rig is set up for cutter at present, but the tack of the inner jib needs pushing forward to make that sail's area about twice as big. Is 27' by 9' going to add anything to the speed? The existing genoa will have to stay as it is.

 

[TQA]

I like my cutter because it allows me to furl the genoa away and still have a headsail with good shape when the wind is strong.

I do not notice much benefit though when reaching in 15 knots. Maybe a couple of tenths?

 

[westernman]

My Bristol Channel Pilot cutter replica is cutter rigged.

Taking down the staysail, or the jib has a huge effect - way out of proportion to the area of canvas being removed

 

[bluemoongaffer]

+1 Michael Chapman. Performance of my cutter rig is down to how the whole interacts. Taking one of the sails out of the equation has a big impact ( being able to reef easily by rolling up the jib is a delight though). Probably best to chat to a couple of sail makers as even seemingly small dimension changes can have quite a big impact on how well you point.

 

[dur]

+2 Michael Chapman. Small sail, big difference. Even on its dodgy self tacking boom.

 

[rotrax]

Our Island Packet is cutter rigged, with a 135% genoa, self tacking staysail and a semi battened main.
In light winds the genoa banged and slapped about, when it wanted reefing it was a nightmare-needed the winch to get it in.
We changed the genoa for a 100% high cut yankee-she seems to perform just as well, the sail can be reefed or rolled away so much easier and the visibility is SO much better.
IMHO cutter rig is for ease of handling sail.
If you sail with big crews a large genoa, or indeed a good selection of headsails, can be a distinct advantage.
For us though, who are on the water as a couple in and around the UK 11 months of the year, cutter rig with both headsails roller furling and the staysail self tacking is perfect.
IIRC the OP asked about tacking through a small slot. If the staysail is furled the friction between the jib and the staysail makes it hang up. Conversley, when the staysail is in use the jib slips through a treat, over the smooth foil. Backing the jib is a great help in this, and keeping the jib under control with the live sheet allows the new live sheet to be set without too much physical activity.

 

[MASH]

My feeling is that the cutter rig has fallen out of favour with the advent of huge overlapping genoas. The stays'l is mainly there to control the airflow through the slot whioch indirectly affects the thrust - I suspect others above are correct in saying that it doesn't in itself add power, rather improves the efficiency of the main/jib combination as well as the useful improvements in sail area handling/management.

A big genoa should maintain a good slot until well rolled up so a stays'l probably won't do much, the advantage comes with a more manageable sized jib which will probably be as said before yankee cut for visibility, manageability and integrity in big seas. Then the stays'l starts to do its job.

I suppose it depends on what you want from your rig. If speed and ease of handling on short sails and racing is the requirement stick to a big wraparound genoa, if you need a more flexible rig and ability to wear efficient well shaped sails in heavier weather (as opposed to a mangled rolled-up genoa) then think of a cutter.

I happen not to favour big genoas. I think they are heavy to handle and often offer poor shape when rolled. They are the product of rating rules I suspect rather than practical ocean going practice, but as most boats don't do ocean sailing are perfectly practical for most applications. They can catch green water due to being so low cut and be damaged, and the advantage of big sail area is imo usually overstated. I've recently been sailing a 28ft awb with a small self-tacking jib and have been surprised at how seldom I wish for more sail area - only in very light winds. I'm not convinced of the necessity or even the desirability for big overlapping genoas on cruising boats but if you wish to change your sailplan best speak to a rigger/sailmaker first to see that the rig will allow any advantage from it.

 

[Blueboatman]

Or add a U shaped bowsprit, Slutter Rig AND get somewhere to hang an asymmetric perhaps?

 

[sailorman]

My feeling is that the cutter rig has fallen out of favour with the advent of huge overlapping genoas. The stays'l is mainly there to control the airflow through the slot whioch indirectly affects the thrust - I suspect others above are correct in saying that it doesn't in itself add power, rather improves the efficiency of the main/jib combination as well as the useful improvements in sail area handling/management.

A big genoa should maintain a good slot until well rolled up so a stays'l probably won't do much, the advantage comes with a more manageable sized jib which will probably be as said before yankee cut for visibility, manageability and integrity in big seas. Then the stays'l starts to do its job.

I suppose it depends on what you want from your rig. If speed and ease of handling on short sails and racing is the requirement stick to a big wraparound genoa, if you need a more flexible rig and ability to wear efficient well shaped sails in heavier weather (as opposed to a mangled rolled-up genoa) then think of a cutter.

I happen not to favour big genoas. I think they are heavy to handle and often offer poor shape when rolled. They are the product of rating rules I suspect rather than practical ocean going practice, but as most boats don't do ocean sailing are perfectly practical for most applications. They can catch green water due to being so low cut and be damaged, and the advantage of big sail area is imo usually overstated. I've recently been sailing a 28ft awb with a small self-tacking jib and have been surprised at how seldom I wish for more sail area - only in very light winds. I'm not convinced of the necessity or even the desirability for big overlapping genoas on cruising boats but if you wish to change your sailplan best speak to a rigger/sailmaker first to see that the rig will allow any advantage from it.

Many of the larger Oysters have cutter rig or perhaps a Slutter in some cases with 2 stays close abaft each other

 

[michael_w]

Put the money towards more diesel for improved upwind performance

 

[ribrage]

My Bristol Channel Pilot cutter replica is cutter rigged.

Taking down the staysail, or the jib has a huge effect - way out of proportion to the area of canvas being removed

I have a cutter rigged ketch and agree with what your saying , the effect of removing the staysail and just leaving on a high cut genoa is completely out of proportion to the size of the sail .

I love mine , as said by others , it's much smaller sails to deal with and is set up as self tacking on a small boom, so it does what it does with little or no interference from me !

In a storm or at night drop the genoa and reef the main , job done , plods on with out any dramas

 

[tudorsailor]

Big plus for me is the high cut yankee makes visibility so much better and safer. Versatility of sail patterns is great. Tacking the yankee is not quite as simple. If the staysail is not out, the yankee does not easily go through the gap. Either furl the yacnkee away a bit before tacking or unfurl the staysail just for the tack. Last option is get a crew member to help the sail through the gap, but thats only if lots on board

TS

 

[rotrax]

Thought I said that earlier..................................

 

[Rivers & creeks]

I have two options for the staysail, the first is to leave the inner stay where it is, this gives a luff of 26' and a foot of 6'. The next option is to push the inner stay forward, this marginally increases the luff but increases the foot to 9'. Is that worth it? I seem to remember reading that it's the first 30% of the sail that does most of the work, where the main foil shape is. The advantage of the first option is a saving of time and money but there's no point doing this change to cutter if it has no effect!

 

[dunedin]

There seems to be quite a lot of people suggesting that a furling genoa needs to set badly when part reefed. I wonder if these posters have tried a high quality sail, with a properly shaped foam luf (ours has three sections of foam luff, of shortening length). In my experience a genoa with no foam luff is useless for beating to windward, but a well designed sail in good condition with foam luff is excellent.
Certainly transformed our boat, which didn't have this when I bought it. And I can make direct comparison between three headsails from race Kevlar, cruise foam luff and original fit without.

I would strongly recommend getting one really good sail rather than potentially wasting money on multiple inferior sails, and extra windage

 

[Rivers & creeks]

I've got a really nice new genoa from Crusader.