Resolution
Well-Known Member
Wash your mouth out with soap!! You will have really upset the luddites.:encouragement:
Is a 27' sailing boat now too small and will not sell?
- Thread starter NPMR
- Start date
Babylon
Well-Known Member
'Luddites' isn't the way to view it. Are people who choose to buy small cars, caravans or flats Luddites?
One needs a different expression, or at least a different way to understand the issue of why there isn't the market in small boats as there used to be.
Resolution
Well-Known Member
It wasn't the size that I was commenting on - there are some sparky new small boats around. It was more the reluctance to admit to change. See one definition of luddite:
"Luddite" is a term describing those opposed to, or slow to adopt or incorporate into their lifestyle, industrialisation, automation, computerisation or new technologies in general.
I would have thought the reasons for the falling market for older smaller boats has been well-aired in these fora and should be pretty obvious, just as NealB said.
SteveSarabande
Well-Known Member
Which race is that ?
Windfall
Well-Known Member
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I think it's simply because there is a vast second hand supply in all conditions from "rough" to "pristine", and even the best of these cost perhaps a quarter of what it would cost to build the same thing new. Want to buy a 26 footer? You can have a perfect Centaur for fifteen grand, a perfect Frances 26 for twenty five grand or a nice new Cornish Crabber 26 for a hundred grand.
jac
Well-Known Member
And like it or not, we all have a budget which is really the limiting factor in our choice, not the actual design.
And if you assume that Ben Jen Bav could chuck out a brand new 27 footer for maybe £50k then you have to ask would it sell when for that money one could buy a 13 year old boat of maybe 40 feet or a 10 year boat of 35 feet which would give more space, speed and comfort yet still be unused enough to have loads of life.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Yep. There is a vast over supply. I don't think as many new entrants to sailing want to be nailed down to boat owning of any sort. The boredom threshold has fallen since the days when we thought an Etch a Sketch came from outer space.
When a quality 29 footer cost as much as a new house in the 1970's it was tremendously glamorous to have a small boat of any sort. There were fewer readily accessible, affordable, competing attractions then. Now we can have niche cars, motorcycles for the weekend, skiing, exotic travel, divorce, golf, flying, hand gliding, diving and the rest. You can do a different thing every week, if you choose. Not much pose value in a wooden Hurley Silhouette now.
Lest we forget, I think this is the boat in question:
http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=400304
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
I have recently sold a 1973 27' boat.
Cannot believe that all 1970's boats are not sold almost instantly.
Lets be honest . In the 1970's Britain made the best boats and the worst cars in the Western hemisphere.
All of my three boats were built in the 1970's .
My first boat was a 1979, "James Callaghan 20" later to become the " Crisis ?, What Crisis "
Second boat was a 1973, "Ted Heath 27" . The fin keeled version was known as the "Broadstairs Rocket"
Third boat was a 1977 "Maxi-Inflation 22 ", The Jubilee version had silver plated cleats throughout.
The 1970's was the best decade for me so far. I lost my virginity , got married , and broke 90 on the golf links.
The right buyer will come along. Keep smiling .
Cannot believe that all 1970's boats are not sold almost instantly.
Lets be honest . In the 1970's Britain made the best boats and the worst cars in the Western hemisphere.
All of my three boats were built in the 1970's .
My first boat was a 1979, "James Callaghan 20" later to become the " Crisis ?, What Crisis "
Second boat was a 1973, "Ted Heath 27" . The fin keeled version was known as the "Broadstairs Rocket"
Third boat was a 1977 "Maxi-Inflation 22 ", The Jubilee version had silver plated cleats throughout.
The 1970's was the best decade for me so far. I lost my virginity , got married , and broke 90 on the golf links.
The right buyer will come along. Keep smiling .
KAL
Well-Known Member
She looks gorgeous and your ad lists everything. Lucky the person who buys her.
Good luck.
Good luck.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
+1. Beautifully presented, which makes a change from most boat adverts,
Iain C
Well-Known Member
She's a nice boat and as a fellow Sabre owner it's a worry if she's not selling for that money, especially as she looks well equipped. IMHO you could make a few changes though.
A 10 year old Cutless bearing is not a selling point. And you also essentially say that every time you have her surveyed, she needs work doing! If all she needs is a wash down an polish, do it yourself! Get her absolutely gleaming and take more pics. Sell the benefits of bilge keels. Your boat is a safe, family cruiser, point out how little she draws and what it means on mooring fees. This will be a "first boat" for many people, talk about big cockpits and plenty headroom, not USCG aerials and long range cruising. My own boat is a fin and many times people who have said to me "couldn't find a fin keeled Sabre so we just ended up with a Centaur." So point out the virtues of bilge keels and why it's better than a Centaur.
I also think the later Sabre windows don't work...they make the boat look smaller and they are from a later era...think rubber bumper MGB if that makes sense. So point out that they don't leak, offer more privacy etc etc.
Lastly, the main looks extremely dirty in the pic, do you have a better one?
And don't make the last sentence "newer, bigger boat". You wouldn't finish a car advert with "reluctant sale due to purchase of faster, safer, more economical, more powerful and more reliable vehicle"
Good luck with the sale though. She looks a great little boat and great value too.
A 10 year old Cutless bearing is not a selling point. And you also essentially say that every time you have her surveyed, she needs work doing! If all she needs is a wash down an polish, do it yourself! Get her absolutely gleaming and take more pics. Sell the benefits of bilge keels. Your boat is a safe, family cruiser, point out how little she draws and what it means on mooring fees. This will be a "first boat" for many people, talk about big cockpits and plenty headroom, not USCG aerials and long range cruising. My own boat is a fin and many times people who have said to me "couldn't find a fin keeled Sabre so we just ended up with a Centaur." So point out the virtues of bilge keels and why it's better than a Centaur.
I also think the later Sabre windows don't work...they make the boat look smaller and they are from a later era...think rubber bumper MGB if that makes sense. So point out that they don't leak, offer more privacy etc etc.
Lastly, the main looks extremely dirty in the pic, do you have a better one?
And don't make the last sentence "newer, bigger boat". You wouldn't finish a car advert with "reluctant sale due to purchase of faster, safer, more economical, more powerful and more reliable vehicle"
Good luck with the sale though. She looks a great little boat and great value too.
Allan
Well-Known Member
chal
Well-Known Member
Just a few thoughts to add, though probably most important things said already...
I'm not a salesman, but I think something that might help is: try to work out what is your target market and make the boat look as good as possible to them. I was chatting to a broker I know slightly a couple of months ago and one of the things she said was that young people don't seem to be buying any more, and that that is part of the reason why the market is so sluggish. The familiar pattern of buying something relatively inexpensive and then gradually trading up is not happening any more, because there's nobody to buy the boats at the bottom of the chain. That's just her opinion based on her experience, though I think there's a lot of truth in what doug748 says about there being lots of alternatives, and I have certainly spoken to younger people who regard all the trouble and expense of maintaining a boat in UK, that you can maybe only use for a few months of the year, as a ridiculous waste of money compared with chartering in the Med for a few weeks a year.
If your target market might be people of, shall we say, (very) late youth who want a good solid well-built and well equipped boat, it seems to me that that's what you have: maybe you could make it as attractive as possible to them. As an example, my wife and I (definitely in late youth) only sail the boat on our own. Sleeping 6, say, is of no interest to us, and neither are things like aft double berths that you have to be a contortionist to get into. We would not be that keen on squashing into a smallish v-berth in the fo'c'sle either. Thus, looking at your appoloduck listing, I can't actually see a decent bed that either we could both sleep in, or one could sleep in while the other kipped in the v-berth. I presume the table drops and that makes into an (alleged) double? Maybe we could see that? And we enjoy an occasional glass of wine in the cockpit on a warm summer evening too: I know you have been advised to remove everything personal from the photos but maybe some demonstration that this would be a pleasant thing to do on your boat?
The other thing that might help you, one way or another, is to move her somewhere cheap to moor and sell with the mooring as a going concern. When we sold our last boat, albeit several years ago now, she was out of the water in a yard. It was costing us loads of money to keep her there, to the extent that we were almost starting to think about just giving her away before we ended up with all possible value absorbed in storage charges, and there were several potential buyers who were new to boat ownership who had concerns about where they would keep her if they went ahead with purchase. One of the benefits of the current lull is that lots of sailing clubs, and even some local authorities, have cheap mooring available now - as low as a few hundred pounds a year that you could probably pass on with the boat. I know having the boat afloat is more hassle than ashore (not sure which she is now, ashore I think but I can't be bothered to go back through all posts to find out) but it could save you money if you are paying yard rates, and make the boat more attractive as a going concern.
I'm not a salesman, but I think something that might help is: try to work out what is your target market and make the boat look as good as possible to them. I was chatting to a broker I know slightly a couple of months ago and one of the things she said was that young people don't seem to be buying any more, and that that is part of the reason why the market is so sluggish. The familiar pattern of buying something relatively inexpensive and then gradually trading up is not happening any more, because there's nobody to buy the boats at the bottom of the chain. That's just her opinion based on her experience, though I think there's a lot of truth in what doug748 says about there being lots of alternatives, and I have certainly spoken to younger people who regard all the trouble and expense of maintaining a boat in UK, that you can maybe only use for a few months of the year, as a ridiculous waste of money compared with chartering in the Med for a few weeks a year.
If your target market might be people of, shall we say, (very) late youth who want a good solid well-built and well equipped boat, it seems to me that that's what you have: maybe you could make it as attractive as possible to them. As an example, my wife and I (definitely in late youth) only sail the boat on our own. Sleeping 6, say, is of no interest to us, and neither are things like aft double berths that you have to be a contortionist to get into. We would not be that keen on squashing into a smallish v-berth in the fo'c'sle either. Thus, looking at your appoloduck listing, I can't actually see a decent bed that either we could both sleep in, or one could sleep in while the other kipped in the v-berth. I presume the table drops and that makes into an (alleged) double? Maybe we could see that? And we enjoy an occasional glass of wine in the cockpit on a warm summer evening too: I know you have been advised to remove everything personal from the photos but maybe some demonstration that this would be a pleasant thing to do on your boat?
The other thing that might help you, one way or another, is to move her somewhere cheap to moor and sell with the mooring as a going concern. When we sold our last boat, albeit several years ago now, she was out of the water in a yard. It was costing us loads of money to keep her there, to the extent that we were almost starting to think about just giving her away before we ended up with all possible value absorbed in storage charges, and there were several potential buyers who were new to boat ownership who had concerns about where they would keep her if they went ahead with purchase. One of the benefits of the current lull is that lots of sailing clubs, and even some local authorities, have cheap mooring available now - as low as a few hundred pounds a year that you could probably pass on with the boat. I know having the boat afloat is more hassle than ashore (not sure which she is now, ashore I think but I can't be bothered to go back through all posts to find out) but it could save you money if you are paying yard rates, and make the boat more attractive as a going concern.
Bru
Well-Known Member
It may or may not be relevant but I can pretty well guarantee that we would not have bought Erbas had she not been on brokerage and, crucially, on display in the brokerage sales area with the keys readily available on (initially) casual enquiry
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
And in that case about the handicap too!
xhurleyman
Well-Known Member
Hello NPMR,
I have a friend who had a Westerly Pageant and bought a Sabre 27 only a few years ago and has sailed his from the east coast of England into the Mediterranean and up around the Greek Sporadees Islands. His Sabre has provided him with just the right boat for his travels. His is a fin keel. I on the other hand am 67 and in 2013 I bought a Sadler 26 which is a bilge keeled boat. At our age on a pension, just being able to slip your boat is far less expensive than requiring craning out for anti fouling etc. The mooring costs for larger boats in marinas are out of a pensioners price bracket and many of us sail singlehandedly. boats of the era in which your boat was built were way better in their construction lay up than modern boats. I have sold one boat on ' Boats and Outboards' and a bilge keeled Hurley 22 on the Hurley association website. Perhaps the Sabre owners association would get you a sale if the price is right.
Some ill advised people consider a 30 footer as a starter boat, if you have been a dinghy sailor then that is a starter boat, a 30 footer really needs crew and crew are not always available when you are free, a smaller boat is very much more manageable if you re single handed especially when mooring on pontoons and in tight spaces. Also when visiting small harbours, larger boats sometimes get turned away so a smaller boat is the better option. You could try Classic Boats magazine if she is in good order. Do make sure you have researched your sale price but do not take a chain saw to her!
I have a friend who had a Westerly Pageant and bought a Sabre 27 only a few years ago and has sailed his from the east coast of England into the Mediterranean and up around the Greek Sporadees Islands. His Sabre has provided him with just the right boat for his travels. His is a fin keel. I on the other hand am 67 and in 2013 I bought a Sadler 26 which is a bilge keeled boat. At our age on a pension, just being able to slip your boat is far less expensive than requiring craning out for anti fouling etc. The mooring costs for larger boats in marinas are out of a pensioners price bracket and many of us sail singlehandedly. boats of the era in which your boat was built were way better in their construction lay up than modern boats. I have sold one boat on ' Boats and Outboards' and a bilge keeled Hurley 22 on the Hurley association website. Perhaps the Sabre owners association would get you a sale if the price is right.
Some ill advised people consider a 30 footer as a starter boat, if you have been a dinghy sailor then that is a starter boat, a 30 footer really needs crew and crew are not always available when you are free, a smaller boat is very much more manageable if you re single handed especially when mooring on pontoons and in tight spaces. Also when visiting small harbours, larger boats sometimes get turned away so a smaller boat is the better option. You could try Classic Boats magazine if she is in good order. Do make sure you have researched your sale price but do not take a chain saw to her!
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
porcupine
New Member
That's a tremendous boat and a wonderful video by the previous owner. I would have bought it too on the strength of that. Can I just ask what the size of the boat is, as I see Colvic Watsons were made in many different sizes.
Bru
Well-Known Member
This thread was about a Marcon Sabre 27 (now sold I think) , no Colvic Watson were harmed producing it
