Is 90 in 180 hurting you ?

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kashurst said:
Nearly 60,000 people set to cross English Channel in 2022 as Home Office agrees £234,000 spend on charter boat

60,000 expected this year - that border control we took back control of is going really well isn't it ????????????
Before 2016 it was a few hundreds a year - thanks to the Dubin Agreement, obliging France to accept them back if they crossed to the UK. So rather than let them cross with all the associated paper work and hassle and cost, France stopped them crossing. Remember Sangatte camps??????
Have a look at UK immigration numbers for 2022 as well - that's also going really really well.

Still now we are independant, we are now over run with potential illegals, incompetence and corruption.
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Well Kash if the uk is so bad after brexit, why are so many coming .
 
I am fluent in German , I will be fine . Now I am leaving this thread as it’s no more about boating . Thank you for all replies.
 
kashurst said:
because Afghanistan, Syria and the Sahel are disaster zones. Plus the UK doesn't have Identity Cards so it's easy to disappear and the NHS don't ask who you are.
Try that in France, Spain or Belgium.
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It's only the bloke from Stoke who is laughing about people fleeing a war zone.
 
kashurst said:
because Afghanistan, Syria and the Sahel are disaster zones. Plus the UK doesn't have Identity Cards so it's easy to disappear and the NHS don't ask who you are.
Try that in France, Spain or Belgium.
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What a load of BS .The NHS do ask “ who you are “
Its because GB play immigration with a straight bat and the others mainly Fr are a law to themselves ( despite signatories to agreements ) do as they pleases .In this case fan them on to GB rather then correctly process them as new found French immigrants. .

If you like it ( the EU ) as much as you artificially preach on here then move to the EU .
Put your money where your mouth is .
I have living mostly in Switzerland btw with business ( property + land ) interests in the U.K, and even Fr .
Anyhow the people have spoken and got what they wished for ….it’s called a democracy btw !

There ain’t no turning back.

Btw the U.K. is self sufficient with nukes :) .How much weight you want to pop on that little fact is entirely up to you .
Nice problem to have isn’t it ?

How big is that umbrella ? Can we shelter the EU ? Do we want to ? …..are we bothered ?
 
So, is it possible to be accepted for the Spanish TIE card with a boat (Marina address) berthed in Spain?

If successful with the TIE registration are you then suggesting that time spent in Spain through your residency is not counted as time in the S zone?
 
Tony W said:
So, is it possible to be accepted for the Spanish TIE card with a boat (Marina address) berthed in Spain?

If successful with the TIE registration are you then suggesting that time spent in Spain through your residency is not counted as time in the S zone?
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Yes - thats how I understand it but applying for a TIE card now is more difficult than in the 6 months before Dec 2020 when there was a "right" to hold a TIE (in the Withdrawl Agreement)
I think it is still possible but you have to be there for 3 months before applying.
There are other caveats though.
Officially, as a "Spanish Resident" you have to hold a Spanish driving licence to drive on the roads.
There is also an issue with UK cars being in Spain for more than 6 months (I think) without being matriculated into Spain.
I know of people who have gone down the TIE route and sold their UK cars - and bought Spanish ones.

And, OFFICIALLY, you can't own a British Registered boat.
Again, OFFICIALLY, a Spanish Resident isn't allowed to drive a UK registered boat without a Spanish boating licence.
AFAIK, at the moment, the Spanish aren't being hot on these points.
But, as I said above, if something were to go wrong (a car accident for example) you wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of the law.

IMHO, the TIE isn't worth it.
Lots of people in our marina have done the TIE thing and so far, are getting away with it (staying for more than the 90 days).
But, for me, I am sticking to the 90/180 and visiting as a "tourist".
Actually, you CAN make the 90/180 work.
In principal, you can do week or so in Jan/Feb
Then a couple of weeks boat maintenance in March/April
Then an early season cruise (as much as 5 or 6 weeks in June/July.
And still have time left for a 5 or 6 week autumn cruise.
So it IS doable.

Personally, I believe that Spain will introduce an extended visa because lots of the Med coastal towns are "feeling the pinch" having lost income from the Brits.
Particularly the "Swallows" who used to live in Spain in the winter and the UK during summer are not spending the money, that they used to, in Spain now.

Finally there is ETIAS which was going to be implemented this year.
ETIAS can be thought of like the American ESTA.
I believe it is being implemented for security reasons but when it is "up and running" we will need to apply for the Schengen visa (90/180) that we currently enjoy for free.
The cost of an ETIAS visa won't be much but the system will be able to police the movement of us tourists - in and out of the EU.

EDIT
For ETIAS see here
ETIAS - European Travel Information and Authorisation System
And this is the video on that website

 
For those with a spouse with citizenship of an EU member state here are the rules regarding stays with your Spouse within the Schengen Zone beyond the 90/180 period. The following is an excerpt from the official Schengen Practical Handbook for Border Guards.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/system/files_en?file=2019-10/c2019-7131-annex.pdf

2.1.2. In the case of third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens, they have the right of residence in a Member State for a period of up three months if they are in possession of a valid passport and are accompanying or joining the EU, EEA or CH citizen, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period.

To be noted that, third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens are entitled to accompany or join the EU, EEA or CH citizen for consecutive periods of up to three months per Schengen States without any conditions or formalities (except the need to have a visa for third-country nationals from a country subject to a visa requirement).

.When the family member travels on his/her own, the normal regime concerning the length of the short stay will (re)start to apply, as the conditions for benefiting from the facilitations concerning the free movement of the EU, EEA and CH citizens and their families are not met anymore.

The previous stays performed in the area without internal border controls accompanying or joining the EU, EEA or CH citizen should not be taken into account for the sake of the calculation of the compliance with the 90/180-day rule which is applicable to the short stay only.

Examples

An Indian national married to a French citizen may accompany his French spouse to Germany for three months, Spain for two months and Italy for three months, thus staying in the area without internal border controls for a total consecutive period of eight months.

A Japanese citizen is married with an Estonian citizen and has never come to the EU before. The Japanese citizen accompanies his Estonian spouse to Italy for one month. Just after that month, the Estonian spouse leaves Italy and returns to Japan to work. The Japanese citizen can remain alone for another 90 days (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day applies).

A Chinese citizen married to a Swedish citizen spends alone, for business purposes, 15 days in Austria. The Swedish citizen then joins him and they spend one month in Portugal. Just after that month, the Swedish spouse leaves the EU. The Chinese citizen can remain alone for the remaining 75 days in the 180-day period (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period applies, but the stay performed together with the EU citizen should not be counted (in this example, the one month period) when assessing the respect of the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period.).


Legal basis – Case law:

- Directive 2004/38/EC (Articles 4, 5 and 27)
- Schengen Borders Code (Article 8)
- Agreement between the European Community and its Member States, of the one part, and the Swiss Confederation, of the other, on the free movement of persons, 21 June 1999
- Judgement of the ECJ of 25 July 2002, Case C-459/99, MRAX vs. Belgium
- Judgement of the ECJ of 17 February 2005, Case C-215/03, Salah Oulane vs. Minister
voor Vreemdelingenzaken en Integratie
- Judgement of the ECJ of 31 January 2006, Case C-503/03, Commission vs. Spain
 
As a UK citizen resident in Monaco I spent a lot of time looking at this in the run up to Brexit. The position for us as citizens of a third-party country, resident in a non-EU country, but within the Schengen area, was not clarified by the EU until the last minute. Also, many residents here own homes in France, Spain and elsewhere where they spend considerable time, often still have homes in the UK which they visit regularly, and travel within the EU for business.

My understanding from legal and tax advice received at the time and since is that within the Schengen area you basically have to decide if you want to be a short stay visitor, long stay visitor or resident of a country within Schengen, and whether you will perform any work related duties during your visit. As a short stay visitor from a third-party country you can come and go freely but only for up to 90 days in any 180, and they don't pay attention to whether the visit is for work or leisure. Only certain countries give the possibility of a long-stay visa ... those that do ask if you intend to work or not and your "long stay" rights do not automatically give freedom of movement within Schengen. As a resident of a Schengen country you have freedom of movement, but you are expected to register, pay taxes and comply with the multitude of rules which apply in the country in which you are resident. There is no easy route which gives you unlimited access without any drawbacks ... unless you are married to an EU citizen and only ever travel within Schengen with them.

As mentioned by others, establishing "residency" in an EU country can have unforeseen consequences for vessel registration, liability for local taxes (it can make you ineligible for the TA exemption, liable for VAT on goods you bring with you and subject to the annual "luxury" taxes based on engine size which apply in France and elsewhere). Validity of boat and driving licences, validity of insurance coverage (boat, car, medical, etc), all become issues depending upon which country you claim residency in, how long you spend there and also how many days you are outside the UK.

As Hurricane said in an earlier post, the problem is not whether you are caught at the border or in the marina ... the controls are weak and their attitude is largely that its your responsibility to be aware of and comply with the rules, not theirs to enforce them. The problem arises when you're subject to a spot check, when something goes wrong, or if you irritate someone and you get involved with officialdom. Then they start to peel the layers of the onion and can throw everything at you.

Since Brexit, I've travelled frequently back and forth to the UK and elsewhere within Shengen and in my experience how your passport and residency status are checked, and whether your passport is stamped or not, is entirely random. I was advised to keep copies of boarding passes and other travel documents as evidence of the dates of travel and not worry too much about passport formalities.

Its also worth mentioning that freedom of movement is not the only consideration and certainly not a panacea. Many EU countries have rules which require you to register for taxes, etc. if you spend more than 90 days there and perform any work related duties, including working remotely for an overseas employer. This applies even if you're an EU citizen or resident of Schengen with the right to work and freedom of movement. Again, enforcement is weak but if you get caught the penalties are severe.

So, its a complex mess!!!
 
DAW said:
My understanding from legal and tax advice received at the time and since is that within the Schengen area you basically have to decide if you want to be a short stay visitor, long stay visitor or resident of a country within Schengen, and whether you will perform any work related duties during your visit. As a short stay visitor from a third-party country you can come and go freely but only for up to 90 days in any 180, and they don't pay attention to whether the visit is for work or leisure.
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There's a list of allowed work activities within the withdrawal agreement, some are general, some are country specific.

For example, I can work in Austria only if I commute in every day, but can't work in Czechia if there is someone with my skill set present in the building.

My professional qualification and degrees are no longer recognised (nor are my friends' EU qualifications recognised in the UK) so I cannot get indemnity insurance which makes working for an EU company very difficult.
 
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