IRIDIUM VS SSB

[Skents]

The wise sages of the forum will probably say that it is a bit late to be posting a message like this but.... We are currently in Tenerife awaiting the Transatlantic crossing season and our brains are being fried (not just by cheap wine) due to conflicting info regarding SSB and Iridium.

We wish we had fitted SSB before leaving UK. We only have a NASA receiver which doesn´t seem to like picking up a signal to download weather files on our lap top. As complete computer numpties we are confused about our next step.

We have seen Iridium phones that link to laptop to download weather files. Told it is quick and not to expensive. What software do you use? What cables are needed? Where would you get such a thing (UK would be ok as visiting Mum before the off).

We have spoken to a Spanish electronics guy who said couldn´t supply ICOM 802 but could do ICOM 718 which seems to be a massive piece of HAM kit. This is all fairly cost effective except we would need to be hauled out for ground plate to be fitted. Is this totally necessary or does the old copper strip to the keel bolts (stainless in lead keel) do the trick well enough?

Just so you know what we want it for....mainly interested in weather info. Don´t feel the need to receive e mail at sea. We are technophobes so we are looking for a simple, idiot proof solution.

Thanks so much for any help you are able to give.

 

[Deleted member 478]

Just a thought, when trying to download weather faxes via your NASA receiver, have you tuned it to 1,9kHz below the published frequency?

 

[snowleopard]

When you get to the other side you'll regret not having an SSB for the weather and security nets and social use. SSB is much more prevalent over there.

 

[Deleted member 478]

Here is the latest Weather Fax Schedule. Check on page 6 paragraph 3 for information about tuning your receiver 1.9kHz lower than the published frequency.

It takes time for the schedule to open, but once it has, you can save yourself a copy for future reference. If you can't open it, send me a PM with your email address and I will email you a copy (412kb)

Hope you enjoy the crossing as much as I did.

 

[TigaWave]

We discovered there were Kenwood SSb transceivers available in the Canaries that are the size of a car radio, but fitting could be quite involved.

I've used the Target HF3M and it was very good for the whole atlantic circuit, for weather and listening to nets. You do have to make sure it is not picking up interference from other electronics. We would switch off everything else and keep the laptop as far as we could from the receiver (The laptop screen causes interference) Shield the aerial wire by running it via coax until it gets outside, and earthing the coax shield to the set and boat earth. A wire up the backstay worked well, but you may find that in marinas near shore power/other boats/flourescent lighting etc that its almost impossible to get a picture. 10 miles offshore it gets better.

Next time I'll get a transceiver so that I can talk to oters on route and not just listen.

As others have said ssb is the best solution.

 

[beneteau_305_553]

I have the Icom 718 Amateur radio transciever and it is very good and was not expensive. ( I got mine for £250 ) It has a transmit power of 100 W which is enough providing the aerial is good.

As standard though it will only transmit on the amateur bands but can be reprogrammed to transmit on the marine band frequencies.

You will need an automatic tuner unit to tune the aerial for transmitting and mount it so that the aerial wire is near vertical and away from any metal pert of the boat that is not insulated. A 6 mm2 wire at least 14 m long run up with a spare halyard from the transom is fine. My ATU is a SG 239 HF smartuner about £180 from waters and stanton.

You can manage without a ground plate. Reasonable transmission can be achieved with just connecting the Aerial (RF) earth connection to the keel bolts again using the 6 mm cable.

To recieve weatherfaxes, Navtex etc connect the external speaker connection from the radio to the mic connection on the laptop with a cable with 3.2 mm jack plugs both ends. You need some software such as JVcomm 32 which is available as a free download from the internet to decode the signals. If you want to use the 718 for recieve only you will not need the ATU nor an aerial earth. Unplug the mic though as if you try to transmit without these it could damage the radio.

If you get a TNC unit you can then trasmit data via the radio and send emails free using winmail or similar. Also send text messages to other users.

In UK waters you do need a full Amateur licence for transmitting on the amateur bands from a boat in tidal waters and you need a Marine long range radio licence to transmit on the marine bands.

Hope this helps

 

[SimonJ]

Iridium obviously is very useful for staying in contact with specific people etc, getting weather. It is useless for staying in contact with other yachties via the various nets - which is what you will want to do! Most Caribbean cruisers quickly realise an SSB considerably adds to the pleasure and to some degree safety. You will almost certainly wish to stay in contact with others (and avoid some!) especially boats with kids.
The cheapest workable solution is an ICOM 706 Mk2 "opened up" for SSB freqs plus athe matching aerial tuner. It i small and and efficient and will have good resale value when you finish. Recommend you live with the NASA receiver which you ought after experimentation with aerials/frequencies etc to be able to hear the various ad hoc nets. Then perhaps have a radio delivered to a carefully chosen Caribbean Island where there is no problem with inward goods or duty issues. eg St Martin or Grenada (have it sent c/o Island Water World in St Georges who will hold for you, it should be marked for yacht in transit and all that stuff). A good source would be ELIs Amateur Radio in Fort Lauderdale who are v reliable experts who will ship anywhere and tax free. Find them on internet.
You will need the set, aerial tuner and (say) 10m of wide copper strip (Elis know what you need). The copper strip concertinaed in bilge and tagged to keel bolts should work well. No need for earth plate. Aerial can be independent of backstay. A sheathed copper wire inserted in a cored rope with core removed and run from u bolt on deck to mast head. (Wire should stop a few feet from top). Attach directly to aerial tuner which must be close by under deck/in locker etc.
You will not really know about operating SSB until you have listened to receive for a while hence do not rush into getting transceiver - make your existing receiver work first, I believe.

 

[Talbot]

Due to the cost of the Pactor modem for the SSB, my recommendation is the following:

fit SSB Tx/Rx for social chit chat etc, and for download of weather faxes.

fit irridium for email and talking to home (pactor III cost is basically similar to Irdium phone but doesnt work nearly as well.

 

[Koeketiene]

Sound advice - have come to pretty much the same conclusion.
Lesson learned for next boat (which hopefully comes with SSB already fitted)

 

[Deleted member 478]

[ QUOTE ]
fit irridium for email and talking to home (pactor III cost is basically similar to Irdium phone but doesnt work nearly as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Be aware of the call costs of the Iridium - Sailmail is roughly US$250 per year for 10 minutes of send/receive per day.

 

[Talbot]

Yes an important point as the running costs are so much higher.

 

[zefender]

Well, if you have a problem receiving via the simple nasa receiver, I suspect you'll have the same problem with a transeiver set. If you want weather maps, then SSB is worth experimenting with. Iridium is fairly slow on data (no faster than 9.6 with compression) and expensive but obviously, for voice calls anywhere its very handy. If you can receive some voice signal on the SSB though, you should be able to receive weather forecasts through Herb etc (at least for those boats in about the same area as you). There are services that provide text message forecasts for an area you choose in advance (eg buoyweather.com) but I'm not sure they would send to an Iridium phone. I'd chat up a long term sailor near where you are and a bottle of wine might get you the results you want, with your existing kit!

 

[npf1]

have a look at Ocens.com. I used their software and service for a N Atlantic using a GLobalstar phone. They also do stuff for Iridium Very easy to get any weather, do emails etc.

 

[Sea Devil]

It has mainly all been said except - SSB will enhance your cruising because it it the primary method of keeping in touch with other cruisers. The primary method of receiving local weather information and the 'nets' SSB and Ham have a value which should not be underestimated. How you 'phone home' is a minor matter by comparison and very much a matter of taste.

 

[jerryat]

Well put Ex-Bam, expresses my views neatly!!

 

[jeremyshaw]

We have the ICOM 802 which has been great - v. reliable. It has a separate front panel from the main box which makes installation easier.

The 802 is well equipped with jack points to stick into a computer to dowload weatherfaxes etc. which we found very useful on our Atlantic crossing. In fact this saved us running into tropical storm Peter which we saw brewing and ducked even though the 'experts' said it would go away.

For email we use Sailmail which is fine and cheap. Slower and harder work than Iridium, but friends who use satphones have trouble unless they fork out for a proper aerial which adds significantly to the cost.

Don't underestimate the importance of email for weather info particularly when you are away from Europe, For example using the free saildocs.com server you can get gribs emailed to you daily for forecats for periods you choose and for specific locations you want - all automated. I would not be without that as it's a pain having to tune in to broadcast services which can be quite difficult to pick up and after waiting 20 minutes for the chat to finish you find you've missed the main report!

Best wishes

 

[trouville]

Go for the icom 718. when i last looked at the icome range it was far less expensive than the 706 and for boat use has the speaker at the front of the set so you can hear well without earphones, It dosent have the 2meter band as the 706 but unless your an amature with local freinds its not really usefull

An SSB in the Americas is a must have!! If you get the 718 make sure its open and not restricted to bands--its normaly just a simple snip or connector change and shouldent cost anything to do in fact it should be set up open before you buy.

Use the back stay for your anntena keel as your earth and buy a tunner either a smart tuner about £300 or other ATU or go for MFJ maual tuner cost from £100 to about £200 you only need a 200w tuner for your 100w output

The person selling the rig will have tunners as well, For harbour i use a diapole. That is two wires one from the coax screen the other from the core this i cut to 14250megs and works well as quarer wave for 80m its really easy to balance with the tuner and will give you a much stronger signal than the exelent backstay used at sea

Good luck and a pleasent passage--youll make lots of freinds even before you arrive over there and learn all about your SSB on route

 

[Skents]

Thanks for all the advice which we are mulling over. Will report back when we have reached a final decision and let you all know how it worked out!

 

[rpthomas]

Unless you want the ongoing costs of Iridium, and its limitations, then Amateur SSB may well be the way to go. For a 'one off' capital outlay, you can install a set that will not only receive, but will also be capable of transmission at any time for free (if you hold a Ham licence, which is fun to study for, and not that difficult). You are not limited to the Icom 718 (which is large and a bit clunky). Many people fit Icom 706 Mk 2G, but my suggestion would be the Yaesu 857D, which is capable not only of excellent voice SSB, but can also handle Data transmission and reception, and will give you all the capability you need for weather data, as well as email via pactor. It is small, easily installed, and very reliable. And you will be able to receive BBC World Service, and all the commercial broadcast bands.

The antenna is the key issue. You can insulate a backstay, and install a ground plate (better than copper to the keel bolts, where there is always the possibility of electrolytic corrosion). Another way is simply to trail a separate RF earth behind you when you want to transmit / receive. My choice for an initial trial installation would be to hoist a vertical wire antenna on one of the signal halliards to the cross-trees, and trail an RF earth, just to see whether I wanted to go for a permanent installation.

You will also need an antenna matching unit, that makes sure the tranciever is matched to the antenna. This can make all the difference between not receiving much, and getting strong signals in and out. It is required for the Yaesu and the Icom, which don't have them built in. You can get an MFJ 971, which is compact, will match just about anything, and will suit your small tranciever.

There are plenty of people who will be only to pleased to help you fit the radio, and get it linked to your computer (you will need a CAT cable connection for that), and give you some help. Lots of yachts use Amateur equipment, and you will find helpful Amateur Radio Hams in just about every location. Some helpful links:

www.eham.net (loads of advice and help - go to 'Elmers' on the Forum)
www.mega-kom.de (about the lowest cost reliable European supplier)
http://www.hamradio.co.uk/ (excellent UK supplier - a bit more expensive, but will give telephone support for you as well, and you can get the kit you need by mail order there).

I have no connection with any of these! Apart from using them.

Good luck. It it were me, (and I have a limited budget), I would go for an Amateur set up. It will give you hours of fun, you can get the broadcast bands and BBC World Service, you can access the MF and VHF marine bands, and make lots of new friends in the Amateur world!

Richard
G4JJP and Offshore Yachttie

 

[trouville]

I agree that the 718 is larger than the yaesu 857D! but the yaesu is tiny!!
Perhaps im being a bit careful but the new very small rigs have no track record for reliability yet. No doubt there bullit proof and as most amature rigs will live forever as my kenwood TS140S has!!

Depending on your buget if you want to save and get top quality proven reliability i would buy now a yaesu FT840 sold with the yaesu matching ATU for just 798Euros!!! a bargin

the Yuesu 857D alone costs 649Euros the 897D 785Euros
Icom 718 649 Euros
Icom 706 848 Euros for example from http://www.thiecom.de/shop1/index.html
or 888Euros from www.mega-kom.de

As for lowering/trailing an earth counterpoise ive tried it its not a good idea Nor is a simple wire to the cross tree!!

The the back stays better,ive even conected from the backstay fitting and used the mast and all rigging to get out!!worked!! Best to just buy a pair of norsman insulators for the backstay and in harbour a diapole pulled up with the topping lift

In reality the backstay is the tideest solution the diapole will give more gain but generaly the back stay is more than good enough as for the earth ive managed without!! then i tried the MFJ artifical earth/counterpoise worked perfectly or the keel or ground plate thats what i have today from choise easy to fit (when hauled out!! effective and gives peace of mind regarding the keel bolt corrosion!! If you have a Bavera then the keel may fall off anyway though!!

Im have beside me just now my ATU i use the MFJ 934 i bought it about 12 years ago it has ground matching unit together with the antenna tuneing unit and cross needle meter this has proved easy to use and reliable

Alternatively i have a Ten-Tec antenna coupler 291 which i used to tune a small QRP rig i made to take ashore should there be a handy mountain by the harbour!! that tunners good for 150w its very simple with just to air capaciters and a simple inducance winding that you can make yourself!!

Shop around for a rig but you will find the prices are all about the same!And service umm dosent really exist today