Iraqi Oil

[Jacket]

Re: To quote Mandy Rice-Davies

>"Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?"

Probably, but to give him the benefit of the doubt, he's no great fan of the present government (hence why he's become an academic) and was very honest about other US related topics we discussed.

 

[jimi]

Intelligence

If their spies are that good why have'nt the UN inspection teams found anything?

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Bush baby

any pink elephants? or is it just kangaroos

Ok brain let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.

 

[Tantalus]

I wish I could comment, but living in the US I can't. I'd be afraid to.
Oh, dear! that may be construed as a comment in itself.
Come what may...
It's interestesting to me how dubious so many of the "founding fathers" were regarding excesses of government.

Add to that the famous(infamous) warning by Eisehower, at the end of his presidency, regarding the military/industrial complex.

This could make one feel rather dubious about this whole mess.

Though I must say...I have no doubt that every member of the current administration has nothing but the best interests of the US, and indeed the entore world, in mind as they make their choices regarding whether to send the best of their sons and daughters back to Iraq to do what should have been done by their Presidents father.

Take all the above as you will.

 

[kgi]

Who supplied and trained Bin Laden? the US did, where did Saddam get his anthrax from? the centre for disease control in Atlanta, twelve batches of it "for scientific research", i'm with Colin on this one, your glasses must be rosier than mine, and if we go to war, surely then NATO has become lost and become a satellite force of the US, notice when a european rapid reaction force was talked about the US threw all its toys out of the pram, instead they want a nato rrf, why? so hey can control it, its time for europe to get out of nato and sort out our own affairs...........ah well only twenty more years and lend lease is finished then we get our islands back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........keith

 

[Tantalus]

Re: Especially as

a $1.50 a gallon??????

I thought this was gonna bring prices down!!!!

 

[broadnorfolk]

Re: Intelligence

> why have'nt the UN inspection teams found anything?

They found the shell casings that could be used for biological weapons and then said "This might be the smoking gun"

If they can't tell the difference between shell casings and a smoking gun you have to wonder how well qualified they are for the job...

 

[claymore]

Re: Intelligence

I think if you are clever enough to make that kind of thing you ought to be clever enough to hide it so that it cannot be found

regards
Claymore

 

[Bergman]

Agree with much of what you say.

Funny isn't it that the US nuclear forces were enough to deter the Evil Empire from overt agression for 40 years but apparently are not able to deter Saddam.

The fundamental truth of the situation is that until some way is found to make the Isrealis and the Palestinians live together without continually wanting to slaughter each other I can see no end to all the surrounding conflicts.

Clearly the US will never be able to broker this sort of settlement, and invading Iraq will only make things worse.

At one time the UK might have been able but now so tied to US thats out of the question. OK Suez didn't help, but thats a long time ago.

Perhaps the saddest part is that there is perhaps enough moderate opinion in the Arab world to find such a settlement but its hard to see how dropping cluster bombs on their friends and relations will encourage such moderation.

Perhaps only good thing to come out of it will be that we get thrown out of EU for not doing as the French and Germans tell us.

 

[Gerry]

Suggest that if you are really interested in the politics of the Middle East that you read 'Fateful Triangle' by Noam Chomsky.It refers to the relationships between USA, Israel and Palestine. Chomskys' main claim is that Israel and the USA are ,in the main ,opposed to peace whereas the Arabs have for years tried to acommodate themselves to Israel. Its a fascinating, moving and disturbingly well thought out and written book.I recommend it.

 

[Guest]

Ok lets get some things corrected here

US OIl supplies - domestic are NOT running out ..... the fact is that OPEC and Russian Crude etc. is cheaper to import- so US oil wells are steadily closed as demand reduces.
Second the dependence on Arab oil is reducing as US has just concluded preliminary agreement with Russia - now starting to be seen as serious contender for size of oil reserves - for supply to lessen reliance on Arabs.
Iaqi oil is not a significant player on the oil market at this time - part of the reason for dollar in the pits and also affecting oil price artificially !

NO I have a theory and this is where personal opinion takes over from the above facts ..... All Govts during their lives need a focus on other things to keep attention of themselves - yep I'm serious ..... how many of you lot out there are dependent on the dollar value as I am - I have lost a serious part of my revenue / earnings as a result of misguided b.....t US politiocs destroying the dollar - Bush if you look into domestic US news is suffering at the polls - same as most of the guys around him. Colin Powell ... and why is the CO-LIN pronounced so ?? I actually have some respect for - my having been there through the Gulf War in Saudi etc. BUt generally ...... you cannot blame everything on Iraq / Al Quaida etc. etc ... I agree they must be put away where they do no damage ..... but blimey !!

Blair - I'm tired of seeing that smug idiotic smile when he says absolutely nothing !

So thats my penny-worth - no doubt someone will now call me a Commie- Bast...d !!!!

Cheers

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[kgi]

Re: Ok lets get some things corrected here

not at all Nige, wouldn't call you anything when i think you are not so far from the truth, Bush's domestic policies are in tatters, he is already campaigning for the next election, and a good ole war is a vote winner, look at maggie thatcher, if the falklands hadn't been invaded there was a very good chance she would have lost the election, Dubya aint stupid.....well his aides aren't, and what we see in the US now is pure electioneering, war and all, any govt that withdraws from the kyoto agreement, nuclear arms proliferation, refuses to recognise the international criminal court, is now logging protected areas, is talking about drilling for oil in the arctic circle, needs to be kept an eye on as he obviously can't be trusted by ANYONE............keith.....ps...electronic intelligence which is what the americans rely on the system is called echelon, put that in your search engine, it makes you wonder

 

[Bergman]

I don't think anyone believes other than that there is much to be admired about American society and about the dedication that they have shown to democracy and freedom.

Equally one has to accept that there is a wider aspect to the way that they have exercised the power that they have. I won't list the examples, they are widely known.

Perhaps it is a normal human attribute, certainly similar criticisms can be (and are) made about how Britain exercised power when we were top nation.

What I have such concern about is being pulled into a course of action that is at best morally doubious and which has the potential to do great damage to a huge number of people. Particularly so since there is grave doubt as to the motives of the participants. Is it really about freedom and democracy?, or about oil, or about the distribution of votes in next years presidential election, or some sort of revenge for 9/11. I honestly do not know.

 

[Tantalus]

"I honestly do not know."

You see..there's the problem.

In the modern age we have come to assume that we have the right to know. In other times our leaders made those decisions for us. Today our society is well educated enough for each individual to feel qualified to make the decision for him/herself.
Add to that the knowledge we now have of being lied to by the governments which typically make these decisions...we are now in the highly untenable situation of having a public which is leary of the official line and even more leary of sending off their children to die in the defense of it.
It doesn't look all that good for "the official line" these days...very tough going indeed.
And...the official line regarding this particular adventure has basically been..."trust me"...not at all what modern, informed, polulace wants to hear. We require justification. I'ts not been forthcoming. Ergo...we don't support it. Who should be surprised?

 

[Twister_Ken]

>Though I must say...I have no doubt that every member of the current administration has nothing but the best interests of the US, and indeed the entore world, in mind as they make their choices regarding whether to send the best of their sons and daughters back to Iraq to do what should have been done by their Presidents father.<

Now, now, I warned you what would happen if you stopped taking those nice pills.

(PS what is the pump price of gas in the US now?)

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Ok lets get some things corrected here

I'll not call you a commie! Your politics are a little further right than that. Bu I will take you up on the russian oil thing! Russia is incapable at this time, of supplying enough oil to make up a shortfall or even embargo of arab oil, they have the reserves, yes, but do not have the wells drilled or the pipelines in place to produce enough for their own and old satellite countries at present, this sotuation is l;ike;ly to continue for another tem years at least, so you can take that out of the equation. Please don't doubt this I am in a position to know. US proven reaserves are dwindling it's a fact. I don't need to prove this, check the oil press.Evrything else you mention I totally agree with. My finances are aslso dollar related!! So I'm a little pissed off aswell"!

 

[Guest]

Russian Oil

I run and have run large Inspection Companies based on Russian Oil and products for the past 10 years. I own a lab and Inspection Co. now in the Baltics spread from Kaliningrad to St. Petrsburg.

We have to keep in front and on our toes with info and contact with the Lukoils and TNK's of the world ... Russian World. These are fast becoming World Oil Giants. I do not disagree about supply problems ..... but note this :

Ventspils for ONE port is capable of near 2 milion tons per month of Crude alone, 1.5 million tons per month of Products .... at present the crude is vurtually stopped.
BUT will likely start again shortly - when the politics are pushed aside !
Primorsk is developing from 1.4 mill per month up to 2.7 mill per month.

Buttinge is upping from its 1.1 to 2.1 per month

Those are very rough figures and does not include the Black Sea, East Germany, Poland etc. that has pipelines also .....from Russia.

Russai is making huge investment into its oil business, BP has invested millions, Williams made mistakes - but still they invested etc. ALL majors are lifting, all Majors are developing, all majors are chasing their slice of the cake.

USA signed a protocol recently to develop its intake of Russian crude to reduce dependence on Arab .... fact.

USA has traditionally plugged wells in favour of cheaper import ... I used to work for Chevron and it was news all the time another site was shut down and plugged - pending better prices etc.

Before I left the sea - I worked with a few Seismic Co's as their 'boat driver ' shooting sesimic around Mexican Gulf, California Coast etc. etc. Considered opinion then and I have no reason to thinks it has changed - was reserves were there ... too exepensive to exploit though .....

I agree that work must be done to get the flows up .... I was on shuttle out of Gulf years ago and yes its millions and millions of tons - the numbers are mind boggling ...but times are changing ....... the Russians are coming !!

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Now I\'m here Dad .... What do I do now ?????

Correct the stupid mistake I made years ago !!!

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Freedom and Democracy ... ?

New York State Court.

Black car worker sacked from major International Car Manufaturers plant ... because he was put on Day shift with White workers. White workers striked, company sacked black guy because he refused to go back on the 'blacks' night-shift.

Visiting a friend of mine on Esat Coast ... invited to go out for Crab baiting one night ..... duh whats that ... well we drive around till we find a lone n.....r and then we have some fun !

OK States is not only place for racism etc. UK has it as well .... but please stop this Freedom, Fraternity, Brotherhood shite about the gud ol US of A ........

what was that story about a little Black Girl who wanted to go to the White school in Carolina .... wasn't so long ago you know - She's probably still alive and doing things in Carolina ....

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

As dear old Harold Wilson joke goes ...

To be perfectly frank and honest ..... I am about to tell a lie !

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !