Iraqi Oil

[claymore]

Interesting news item where Colin Powell states that America will not take possession of Iragi oil revenues but that they will be held in trust for the Iraqi people.
Didn't that get said about British/Scottish interests when they were finding oil in the N. Sea?

regards
Claymore

 

[pkb]

so who would you rather have in charge?

 

[claymore]

Go on - expand

regards
Claymore

 

[jimi]

Wider Issues

I cannot see how we can go ahead with this war without the backing of the UN. If we do invade without their backing then in my view we are international criminals and any country has a similar right to invade us to rid us of weapons of mass destruction and depose the dictator Blair. Might be a good thing, perhaps the invading force would coerce us to invest in education rather than armaments.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Wider Issues

They wouldn't need to invade, just come through the tunnel like all the other illegals, they'd be welcomed and put in hotels, where they could plot unhindered, no need for all that macho bloodshed bit!

 

[Twister_Ken]

And, of course, we all believe Coal-In Powell, for Powell is an honourable man, etc, etc

Take a look at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=370328>http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=370328</A>

Robert Fisk is one of the western journalists who understands the arab world

 

[ccscott49]

Excellent article, I think everybody (with some kind of brain) is aware this conflict is about securing American oil supplies, so was the Kuwaiti conflict. Weapons of mass distruction, Pah! The twin towers was caused by the US foriegn policy, I'm afraid I have no sympathy with the US, (the people who lost relatives and friends, yes) not after seeing the money and arms supplied to the IRA, from America, I've seen too many body bags, with friends in them for that!

 

[claymore]

Gatso Cameras

Perhaps they could be targeted as a mission critical elimination objective by an invading force.
Same one twice now - Doh!

regards
Claymore

 

[sailbadthesinner]

its not winnig the war that it is important it is winning the peace

the problem i have is the yanks will just go in there and stuff it up. put in place some US backed administartion that eventually has to leave, being too corrupt and unpopular. leaving a power void for another madman to fill by touting populist anti us /un policies and we are back where we started.

and while we are at it
since when do we get to be world policeman's deputy when we cannot even sort out our mess in northern ireland?????

Ok brain let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Gatso Cameras

You been on candid camera lately, then?

 

[ccscott49]

It's very unpopular to mention the fact we've been at un-official war with our own population for a few centuries, very unpopular! Mustn't be mentioned anymore, after all those really nice freedom fighters, the IRA have agreed to maybe not blow anybody up anymore, but only if they get their own way, that is! Plus of course they are now all politicians, (ministers no less!) with just a little blood on their hands, not much, just a little! Yes, I am a little bitter!

 

[pkb]

Middle East oil is important to the West. We simply can't allow it to be used as an economic weapon against us. In which case we should be willing to trade a US force of occupation for what is by all accounts a fairly nasty and brutal regime. Throughout history the USA's influence has been largely benign and a large presence by the world's foremost military power in a critical region of the world could act as a stabilising influence. Some states which support terrorism might also think twice about it if some of the world's most lethal and advanced weaponry was sitting on their doorstep in very large numbers. I could go on and on but then I'd start to sermonise.

Peter

 

[sailbadthesinner]

ah colin
this board's gain
the diplomatic's service loss eh!

My thought is
Saddam is a caged tiger. if he was to try any act of agression to destabilise the region and used weapons of mass destruction he knows he would be nuked. Before the last war the US foreign secretary met Tariq Aziz and personally handed him a letter to that effect. have you noticed all talk of finding Osama seems to have been dropped.


ps i see you and wakeup have beeen scrapping again. ribs must be better.


Ok brain let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.

 

[ccscott49]

You think the US influence in the world has been mainly benign! I'm sorry but that is just not true, they've had there mucky little paws in just about every conflict since the second world war, even if covertly, but most of the time openly propping up some despot or another, if it suits their purpose. I don't believe anybody could be so naive as to think the US influence in the world is benign. Why shouldn't the middle east oil be used as an economic weapon against the west It's not our oil! They can choose to sell it to whoever they want and at what price. Who controls all the oil anyway? The big oil companies do! Where are they mainly based? The US of A! Think again!

 

[pkb]

You're way off beam I'm afraid. Arab terrorism is not a result of US foreign policy but of the repressive policies of Middle Eastern regimes who have patently failied to deliver the what their people want. This has bred a generation of disaffected young men who are frustrated by the lack of opportunity in their homeland and they look to the West with enormous envy and its envy which breeds hatred.

 

[jimi]

I would suggest that the USA's foreign policy has never been a stabilising influence on anything. They were better when they were isolationist, at least they kept their noses out of things they did'nt understand!
Africa
Afghanistan
Cold War
Cuba
Vietnam
Korea
N Ireland
Middle America
Middle East
to name but a few

The simple fact is that they are crassly ignorant and intolerant of foreign culture. Look at their exemption of themselves from the strictures of War crimes or human rights.

The plain simple truth is that they are bully boys and the reason much of the world is in danger is because of their intervention or the threat of it. IMHO of course!

 

[pkb]

So defeating Nazi Germany wasn't benign. Or stopping Japanese imperialism in its tracks? Or the Marshall plan? Or committing their troops during the Cold War to defend a Europe that hasn't the guts to defend itself. The US is, after the UK, the most politically stable and longest lasting democracy on the planet. On the back of that stability they've built a society that enjoys more wealth and freedom that is shared between more people than has ever been known. Sounds not too bad to me.

The French and the Germans have a habit of sneering at the US. Sadly an awful lot of our chattering classes do likewise.

Now here's an interesting observation. Since their declaration of independence in the late 18th century the USA has had a stable system of government over the succeeding two and a half centuries right up to the present day France has had, now let me think, at least three empires, a couple of monarchies and about five republics during the same time and they've succeeded in being invaded about four or five times during that period. And lets not even begin to look at what has gone on in Germany. So who should be sneering???

 

[sailbadthesinner]

well why did they attack the US then?
surely it is US foreign policy and its support of israel that is the cause of this?


Ok brain let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.

 

[RTB]

No-one should be sneering - while I agree with much of the spirit of what you say, it is the sneering attitude of the world that gets people angry and to feel agrieved. This forum may be harmless argument and debate, but when the arguments get personal it quickly deterioates. The same can be said of Union arguments over pay, family arguments over who does the dishes or which football team is the best BUT in this case we are talking about WAR and that should be avoided at all costs - except the cost of giving in.

Ssgoodthis....intit?

 

[ccscott49]

How am I way off beam, didn't noraid in the US raise millions of dollars in aid to the IRA? I must be very misinformed. Has the US ever sanctioned Israel for the attrocities it has been responsible for in the middle east? Has the US upheld the UN decrees aimed at Israel that they have blatantly ignored? Has the US stopped selling the Israelis' arms? Did the US not back Saddam hussein against the Iranians? Did the US not sell technology and supplies to the Iraq regime for the production of chemical weapons? (through their european subsiduries) Has the uS not had it's sticky little fingers in every little war in Africa and south america for the last 25 years? Sorry I am very misinformed, if that is not the case. The US will do anything in it's power to ensure the American way of life is not changed, be it going to war (as long as it's not on american soil) or propping up dictators friendly to themselves.