IPS is 20 years old! Would you?

[Momac]

Do people service ips drives themselves or are they all only serviced professionally ?

 

[Scubadoo]

I presume he means a side platform, as in to the side of the outboard engine, not one of those folding down sides as seen on saxdors and others.

Side platform (either side of the outboard) are fine in my experience, but as ever it's just a personal choice, I can see why someone might prioritise a full width platform.

Still can't fit a tender off the stern with snap davits, not everyone's requirement though, does anyone know a solution for that?

 

[Boat2016]

Do people service ips drives themselves or are they all only serviced professionally ?

Most people I know with IPS are not those who get their hands dirty servicing their boat on their day off, they are not tight and get the boat maintained professionally so there’s also a good service history to go with the boat when the time comes to sell. When you’ve invested ££££ in a boat why would you spend your spare time working on it when you could be out enjoying it

 

[Bouba]

Most people I know with IPS are not those who get their hands dirty servicing their boat on their day off, they are not tight and get the boat maintained professionally so there’s also a good service history to go with the boat when the time comes to sell. When you’ve invested ££££ in a boat why would you spend your spare time working on it when you could be out enjoying it

I think we have the crux of the OP’s question…because those who buy a 20 year old boat are a different demographic

 

[Momac]

Most people I know with IPS are not those who get their hands dirty servicing their boat on their day off, they are not tight and get the boat maintained professionally so there’s also a good service history to go with the boat when the time comes to sell. When you’ve invested ££££ in a boat why would you spend your spare time working on it when you could be out enjoying it

I do all of my own servicing and have done for the last decade and I get some satisfaction from doing that. Maintaining the boat is part of the boating experience.
All of the boat owners I know do their own servicing.

So I think you are saying ips is not for people who like to do DIY servicing?

 

[Portofino]

I do all of my own servicing and have done for the last decade and I get some satisfaction from doing that. Maintaining the boat is part of the boating experience.
All of the boat owners I know do their own servicing.

So I think you are saying ips is not for people who like to do DIY servicing?

Same here with large MAN s on shafts . To give you an idea talking 72 L of oil .
I enjoyed it . Nothing to do with “demographics “ or where with all .
I also service my own classic Ferraris X2 and Porsches X2 .
One of which just completed a 4000 km euro trip ( St Moritz Dino meet ) …..uneventfully …..as was my 9 yrs Itama ownership.



How ever having said that older more classic machinery devoid of excess electrotwackery and reliance on dealer lap tops are hugely more DIY er able .

Suspect IPS is just a few steps away from DIY ? Talking diagnostic and coding fresh parts + having to have lift outs for lub changes, seal replacement etc etc .

Even ( talking 20 yr tech arn’t we ) my boat had Morse throttles on the helm . Perfect if they got wet . It didn’t have some electronic/ electrotwackery throttles . Remember the threads about 20 yr old not brand new with warranties.

Turned around why would you not go looking for a reliable option if shopping in the 20 yr + market ?

Then there’s parts availability + the tech redundancy….ie the factory in this case VP no longer support [ insert the part / widget ]

With old stuff cars + boats it’s the recent SH , the last few yrs that count . Plus with IPs it’s had all the dealer / franchised updates as it went along . So in this regard the franchised SH could be construed important , but due to the complexity and the inevitable rubber seals holding back seawater from oil , the electric gremlins . A full SH is still no guarantee thst in your ownership/ custodianship there’s never going to be a £20-30 K rebuild lurking + the down time Sod’s law it’s mid season when it goes bang .

As for DIY er ness it’s more like the mechanical competent guys amongst us can see all the downsides of aged IPS.So steer away . Again why should we opt into this ?

Leaving none mechanical minded buyers …..fill your boots guys .
.Where as a newbie to boat ownership mechanical numpty ( fairly normal theses days runs a Tesla kinda guy ) ,
Works in a Co where “ facilities “ turn out to change light bulbs etc etc , ……quite techi up ie wears a smart watch , to see his heart rate to help manage his many new found 21 C anxiety problems etc .You know that kinda guy .
Thinks he’s got one up on the rest of us bcz he can skip detailed boat handling courses bcz the IPS has covered thst off …..he thinks .
Aged mid 30 s young kids eager to get on the water ……this demographic will be attracted to IPS cos he knows no better and it’s cheaper the price drop to sell it . As the others more mech wise won’t touch it with a barge pole .

So there will always be a mkt .
1- cheaper
2- Newbie mech numbties entering .

 

[ari]

I think we have the crux of the OP’s question…because those who buy a 20 year old boat are a different demographic

Precisely!

TLDR: Will the buyers of 20+ year boats be happy to adopt IPS or will it start to become a sticking point as the boat ages?

 

[kashurst]

Most people I know with IPS are not those who get their hands dirty servicing their boat on their day off, they are not tight and get the boat maintained professionally so there’s also a good service history to go with the boat when the time comes to sell. When you’ve invested ££££ in a boat why would you spend your spare time working on it when you could be out enjoying it

People boat and enjoy boats in loads of different ways for lots of different reasons.
Not wanting to pay for "professional" servicing is not being tight. Some people actually enjoy doing it and know the job has been done properly. Which is not guaranteed with some "professionals".

edit: there is another growing problem with modern boats with complex electronically controlled drive trains - everything is proprietory to the manufacturer. Which is OK in the first few years, but it does mean as boats get older it will be nigh on impossible for a non approved service agent to repair or service stuff. This already happens with cars. But cars have a relatively short life @ 15 years and are generally very reliable and a lot cheaper - and they don't spend their lives bobbing about in sea water. Boats have a 50+ year lifetime and those proprietory bills will continue to rise with inflation. The boater who can happily afford proprietory servicing will likely be happy buying new or nearly new.

At some point it will be very difficult to find a second hand buyer who will be able to or be prepared to pay for proprietory servicing and repairs on a 15 - 20 ish year old boat. There will also be a growing problem of suitable technicians who can actually do the work, so the price will rise further.
Buying a 20 year old IPS etc boat will be like buying a 20 year old Masserati. Lots of people could buy a 20 year old Masser but very few do, because of the fear it will suffer an expensive Masserati only failure.

 

[Grubble]

Buying a 20 year old IPS etc boat will be like buying a 20 year old Masserati. Lots of people could buy a 20 year old Masser but very few do, because of the fear it will suffer an expensive Masserati only failure.

According to this forum nobody would buy a brand new IPS boat, or one outside of factory warranty, let alone a 20 year old version.

I wonder if there is a possibility this forum isn't representative of actual boat buyers?

 

[Bouba]

According to this forum nobody would buy a brand new IPS boat, or one outside of factory warranty, let alone a 20 year old version.

I wonder if there is a possibility this forum isn't representative of actual boat buyers?

Exactly right...in fact the people who respond might not even represent the forum. But these words do carry weight because whenever you google a boating question you will always get this forum

 

[kashurst]

According to this forum nobody would buy a brand new IPS boat, or one outside of factory warranty, let alone a 20 year old version.

I wonder if there is a possibility this forum isn't representative of actual boat buyers?

It is probably not representative of new boat buyers. But I think it is very representative of secondhand boat buyers.
The OPs original question was about buying 20+ year old IPS boats.
If the original question was would I buy a brand new IPS boat the answer would stll be no.
The fuel savings and ease of mooring etc don't outweigh the extra servicing, complexity and technical risks.

 

[Parabordi]

Volvo Penta's IPS system is 20 years old this year! Time flies.

Now a 20 year old boat is starting to get on a bit, and more to the point, people buying 20 year old boats are likely to be those of a more limited budget (or they'd likely be buying something a bit newer). So the big question is, are those people going to be put off IPS boats for the (perceived or otherwise) cost of maintenance?

Or will the advantages of IPS - easy manoeuvrability, better space utilisation than shafts, potential for more powerful engines than outdrives and, some believe (I have my doubts) reduced fuel consumption compared to shaft drive (but not better than outdrive), or simply that's all that is available in the type of boat they want, override those doubts?

TLDR: Will the buyers of 20+ year boats be happy to adopt IPS or will it start to become a sticking point as the boat ages?

Nope, never

 

[TonyR123]

So I would buy a brand new IPS boat and have done before. 20 year old (right now) I dont think so. However a 2015 IPS boat in another 10 years time I would with full servicing. On the flip side if the same boat had shafts I would choose shafts. Not many new boats below 50ft have shafts anymore so I guess not much choice moving forwards.

 

[petem]

According to this forum nobody would buy a brand new IPS boat, or one outside of factory warranty, let alone a 20 year old version.

I wonder if there is a possibility this forum isn't representative of actual boat buyers?

That's 100% a given. People who can afford a £mil+ boat probably have better things to do than read these forums (with a few exceptions)!

 

[Portofino]

That's 100% a given. People who can afford a £mil+ boat probably have better things to do than read these forums (with a few exceptions)!

Any one with any sense would do a due diligence on a purchase. Given choices .
I don’t think with the sticker price of £1M + and a boat - that ones common sense evaporates .

Granted a pod 30 M + ( quad IPs ) and there are some *, the maintenance, berthing and possibly crewing costs compared to say having to replace a pod , or a large VP bill the next yr after warranty expires isn’t going to bother the guy who’s dropped £10 M + on the thing 3 years ago .

But I bet he knows exactly what’s he’s gotten himself into before passing on a trad MTU , MAN powered on twin shafts equivalent.

I would think a buyer of a 20 yr old IPS say 50 fter would be equally diligent and read what Mr Google will throw up.
It’s isn’t great reading btw . Obviously filter .


*
Amer Yachts: innovative, technological and sustainable yachts

 

[Cheery]

As a side question on IPS and claims of fuel savings, Sunseeker have on their website several new models. The new 74 has IPS 1350 and the fuel capacity is 4,500l for this vessel with a claimed range of 680 nm at 10kn. The current 76 Sunseeker has a choice of shafts with MAN V12 1400 or 1550 and the fuel capacity is 6,000l with a range of 500nm at 10kn. Is this feasible to get such an increase with 2 fairly similar boats from the same builder?

 

[Assassin]

People have to accept it is a throwaway society and it is cheaper to manufacture abroad as one unit and not a series of components from around the world and assemble them in one place and ship an entire unit as supply chains accommodate this and nobody wants to sell a £20 sensor to replace the sensor which is causing the issues and can be replaced in 30 minutes, and the younger generation demand instant answers and do not diagnose anything and prove or disprove the issue. Boats are seen as a cash cow by many and here is another problem, everyone wants to squeeze the tit for the maximum they can extract and do the least amount of work and spend the least they can so any reconditioned items are often dubious.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

As a side question on IPS and claims of fuel savings, Sunseeker have on their website several new models. The new 74 has IPS 1350 and the fuel capacity is 4,500l for this vessel with a claimed range of 680 nm at 10kn. The current 76 Sunseeker has a choice of shafts with MAN V12 1400 or 1550 and the fuel capacity is 6,000l with a range of 500nm at 10kn. Is this feasible to get such an increase with 2 fairly similar boats from the same builder?

900HP for the IPS vs 1400/1550 for the MANs.

 

[EricJ]

900HP for the IPS vs 1400/1550 for the MANs.

I was about to say that the tonnage might make the difference, but the 74 is actually 2 tonne heavier. Probably a very different hull…

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Maybe. But the fuel burn curves will show lower consumption at every RPM on the prop load curve for every 900HP engine vs every 1500HP engine. Nothing to do with IPS per se. Smaller lower power engines burn less fuel. So assuming the boat is propped correctly, which they/ it will be, the range will correspond. Although the difference is significant assuming your figures are correct and all other things being equal.

I’ll have a look for the prop curves later.

4500/680=6.6 litres / mile
6000/500=12 litres / mile