IPS Drives - Are they still really bad?

[volvopaul]

I’m happier just disagreeing with something when it’s objectively wrong.

IPS is a system that takes the prevailing condition/s, current/wind/sluice gate, out of the game and in that sense it’s a game changer.

Coming on to a pontoon with 3kts of current rushing down stream and 20kts of wind beam on pushing you off and a 17mt Gap for a 15m the boat - I’d love to see MBY put Jack in an IPS boat IPS against John Mendez in a Shaft Drive and see what the outcome is.....surely they could arrange that during SIBS????

I've done one sea trial with Jon on a Targa 44 , he didn't use the joystick once other than to demonstrate it to the potential buyer, he drove it with the wheel and throttle levers just the same as a sterndrive boat, it behaved more of less the same as a sterndrive boat with a lot less stress on the system .
When you see an IPS boat berthing and lurching around on its keel its most likely the owner has the joystick in the high speed setting , ones I've driven are quite happy in the lower more comfortable setting that doesn't spill your Tea all over the cockpit.

 

[volvopaul]

I’m happier just disagreeing with something when it’s objectively wrong.

IPS is a system that takes the prevailing condition/s, current/wind/sluice gate, out of the game and in that sense it’s a game changer.

Coming on to a pontoon with 3kts of current rushing down stream and 20kts of wind beam on pushing you off and a 17mt Gap for a 15m the boat - I’d love to see MBY put Jack in an IPS boat IPS against John Mendez in a Shaft Drive and see what the outcome is.....surely they could arrange that during SIBS????

I've done one sea trial with Jon on a Targa 44 , he didn't use the joystick once other than to demonstrate it to the potential buyer, he drove it with the wheel and throttle levers just the same as a sterndrive boat, it behaved more of less the same as a sterndrive boat with a lot less stress on the system .
When you see an IPS boat berthing and lurching around on its keel its most likely the owner has the joystick in the high speed setting , ones I've driven are quite happy in the lower more comfortable setting that doesn't spill your Tea all over the cockpit.

 

[Nigelpickin]

The manourvering is a red hearing ,cul d sac argument .
It's the rubber seals and IMHO the rubber skirt dangling in seawater .The latter seems a taboo subject !
I don,t think you need to an owner to contribute to the Op,s question .
Nigel and Tony have been new owners ,not used and have young boats --so far so good .

But then what ? As they age ?
There are plenty of other forums ,this one below challenges VP,s the seal issue , think about it it's not gonna last for ever .
I have previously chalanged the rubber skirt ,another drop the leg + big bill ---but when 5 or 7 years or wait until it perishes-on a recent thread on here --silence .

To Nigel + Tony just for clarity ,have you had your seals done yet ?If not any thoughts of when

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/the-truth-about-volvo-ips-drive-technology-153683.html

Took longer than usual to get this link out again PF - you busy shooting down drones or what?!!

Ok the seals have been up updated - do the oil changes - keep the services up and all should be fine. Change the seals if worried, I’ve been quoted < 3k per leg.

Don’t have the boat anymore though, going over to sails - which are really expensive by the way, as is teak - stainless steel - fuel - depreciation - cost of zero speed gyros - berths in Ibiza.....but do me a favour PF - next time you post that link, please do so with disclosure that the seals are no longer v 1.0 and that £3k per side is about right, should they need replacing.

Re manoeuvring being a red hearing (sic), that’s just you typing words that are not related to any kind of reality and either hoping to get away with it or more likely, not bothering to think it through.

Ease of use and reduction of angst are major factors for some, perhaps not you but you’re never going to buy IPS anyway.

 

[Nigelpickin]

I've done one sea trial with Jon on a Targa 44 , he didn't use the joystick once other than to demonstrate it to the potential buyer, he drove it with the wheel and throttle levers just the same as a sterndrive boat, it behaved more of less the same as a sterndrive boat with a lot less stress on the system .
When you see an IPS boat berthing and lurching around on its keel its most likely the owner has the joystick in the high speed setting , ones I've driven are quite happy in the lower more comfortable setting that doesn't spill your Tea all over the cockpit.

Exactly - using an IPS joystick is a lot like making love to a beatiful woman , a little less heavy handed and more gentle play keeps things smooth and painless.

 

[MapisM]

I’m happier just disagreeing with something when it’s objectively wrong.

Bold statement, if I've ever seen one.
You're fully entitled to have your view of course, but there's no need to dismiss mine pretending that it's "objectively" wrong.
And what would make yours objectively right, btw?
A suggestive comparison between the use of a joystick and love with a beautiful woman...?!? :ambivalence:

 

[Nigelpickin]

Bold statement, if I've ever seen one.
You're fully entitled to have your view of course, but there's no need to dismiss mine pretending that it's "objectively" wrong.
And what would make yours objectively right, btw?
A suggestive comparison between the use of a joystick and love with a beautiful women...?!? :ambivalence:

Erm - it’s a joke - you probably didn’t get the Fast Show in IT....lucky that I didn’t use the South Park ‘beating a dead horse’ meme!!!

Have a look at JMs recent video on MBY, he’s holding an IPS boat into the wind in a training video, using just the throttles and a bit of wheel. So what’s not to like, best of both worlds....but the Joycon version for that video would have been far shorter....

 

[MapisM]

I did get the joke in your comparison, and I hope you'll forgive me for having bounced it back in the same vein...

Otoh, it's your labelling of my opinion as objectively wrong that didn't came across as a joke at all.
Btw, I sense that you are honestly convinced of what you said - which is fine.
But that's, yet again, an opinion - neither objectively right nor wrong: an opinion, period. Just as much as mine.
That's all I was saying.

 

[Portofino]

Took longer than usual to get this link out again PF -

Ease of use and reduction of angst are major factors for some, perhaps not you but you’re never going to buy IPS anyway.

That's a new link , one of many I choose it to illustrate the seal change time interval conundrum , 2014 and the guy can,t get any sence out of Volvo .
Out drive ,s normally ( mine did ) come off every two years anyhow for the bellows and I had mine pressure tested and seals changed as n when .

So I can conclude you thought about it ,but actually did not do it ---- got out .

Into a sail boat --which is more tricky "angst " than a twin engined MoBo manourvering ..
Does that not in a way devalue your emphise on the manoeuvring argument ? In the sence folks just have to learn manourvering what they have anyhow .

Like you and Tony I would buy an IPS boat ---yup YES ----New --- wrapped in warranties ,but that's not what the Op was asking ,
I would also copy you in getting out before the inevitable --- oil in the pod

Can we revisit the rubber skirt ---- any one got any ideas ? ----- is it immortal in the sence of longevity
Suspect the answer from Volvo Penta is as muddled as when to change the seals !

Is there anything positive about aged IPS boats out of warrenty ?

 

[Nigelpickin]

I did get the joke in your comparison, and I hope you'll forgive me for having bounced it back in the same vein...

Otoh, it's your labelling of my opinion as objectively wrong that didn't came across as a joke at all.
Btw, I sense that you are honestly convinced of what you said - which is fine.
But that's, yet again, an opinion - neither objectively right nor wrong: an opinion, period. Just as much as mine.
That's all I was saying.

Look, my beans are chilled, no worries, but try, if you will to take an objective look at this.

VP has just stated that JM carried out a sea trial on a POD boat and used it as he would a stern drive.
I’ve just watched JM carry out a marina holding exercise with a POD boat using the boat as he would have a shaft driven vessel.

So you can certainly use the system in a traditional fashion - indeed, I made a habit of berthing using only the throttle and wheel when coming along side whenever I could, good practice imho.

But M, I’ve been a several lock enterances along side a (very) experienced skipper in a shaft driven boat and when the water comes out I’m able to hold position and the shaft boat has to re group, skilfully and with ease, but I promise you there’s no way to hold position, with two way traffic and 10,000’s tons of water pushing towards and under the boat and a cross wind complicating things, in a regular boat.

You have so much more thinking time and manouverability in an IPS boat, you don’t need to worry about thruster batteries going flat and hell, if you want to you can lock in an hold using the sky hook, (yes I know there are conventional versions aiming to do the same thing).

So to clarify I’m saying that it’s wrong to assert that side thrust heeling is a systematic failure of IPS
I’m saying that you can use an IPS boat in a conventional manner
I’m saying that here are things that you can do in an IPS boat that you can not do in a shaft drive boat

It’s an objective opinion, based on experience and conversation in the field with others.

I’ve got some footage somewhere of our friends being boarded by a French customs rib, we were just off cap Breton. Anyhow, they took a dink in their swim platform because the rib skipper had low skills, but that’s not he point. Point is that while they were being boarded we were ordered by the skipper the over VHF, to hold our position, bow to bow with the mother ship...after a little while we had to clarify if that meant we should hold our lat/long position or dance with them as they spun around in the tide and wind...

A few weeks later we were boarded by a Spanish customs vessle, (big Rodman on IPS), and they put their French counterparts to shame.

But it’s and expensive system to maintain, the fuel savings are never going to compensate and if you’ve grown up on shafts you’ll not benefit too much from the tech.

 

[MapisM]

See? I knew you were convinced of being objectively right while I'm objectively wrong.
No matter, I said I was happy to agree to disagree before the objectivity debate, and I still am.

Just for the records, though:

it’s wrong to assert that side thrust heeling is a systematic failure of IPS

I agree, that statement would be wrong - in fact, I never made it.
What I said is that thrust heeling is an inherent characteristic of pods. A characteristic which:
- is not easy to control, and can even be dangerous, in some cases;
- negatively affects also steering at speed;
- is not worth accepting just to have a stronger sideway movement capability;
- in short, something which I personally dislike with passion.
All imho of course, and you're fully entitled to think that all the above is "objectively" BS.
But, and it's a big but, "systematic failure" is something you made up yourself.
Talk about Freudian slip, maybe...?

 

[Nigelpickin]

See? I knew you were convinced of being objectively right while I'm objectively wrong.
No matter, I said I was happy to agree to disagree before the objectivity debate, and I still am.

Just for the records, though:

I agree, that statement would be wrong - in fact, I never made it.
What I said is that thrust heeling is an inherent characteristic of pods. A characteristic which:
- is not easy to control, and can even be dangerous, in some cases;
- negatively affects also steering at speed;
- is not worth accepting just to have a stronger sideway movement capability;
- in short, something which I personally dislike with passion.
All imho of course, and you're fully entitled to think that all the above is "objectively" BS.
But, and it's a big but, "systematic failure" is something you made up yourself.
Talk about Freudian slip, maybe...?

LOL
* systemic!!!
Sorry

 

[TonyR123]

One thing I do know is that the pod v shafts discussion is a passionate one!

Few things from various points / questions:

1: replace the seals - not a clue as boat is too new. However I do have a 5 year warranty and will follow servicing to the letter! Like anything maybe early pods will have issues and they should improve with each new variation.
2: someone mentioned the mby video and controlling in the wind. I just press the DPS button and relax.
3: would I buy pods from the very first ones released? Probably not. Bit like buying the very first electric car - I wouldn't but would consider one now - well for the wife not me. I still like a v8/v12 engine

 

[CharlieAlpha]

I've done one sea trial with Jon on a Targa 44 , he didn't use the joystick once other than to demonstrate it to the potential buyer, he drove it with the wheel and throttle levers just the same as a sterndrive boat, it behaved more of less the same as a sterndrive boat with a lot less stress on the system .
When you see an IPS boat berthing and lurching around on its keel its most likely the owner has the joystick in the high speed setting , ones I've driven are quite happy in the lower more comfortable setting that doesn't spill your Tea all over the cockpit.

I remember it well and now coming up to 3 years of problem free ownership and yes VP does do the service every year.

 

[darryl_g]

Having had my IPS boat - a 2011 Sealine C48 for just under 2 months now, I'll add my comments to this thread.

I did get some professional tuition, and a lot of that comprised holding the boat stationary on the throttles and manouvering using the throttles rather than the joystick.

What I did find, however, what that we ended up the final bit of berthing every time using the joystick and not the throttles but I also have some other observations, which may be based on the windy conditions, the lack of space to manoeuvre & that we were in the very end berth next to the shore.

- I found that the bow pulled around less using the pods than when using sterndrives that I'd previously used. Is this because the pods are closer to the centre line than my old sterndrives or because they're more central to the boat
- Lack of a bow thruster did make it difficult to control the bow with the throttles alone in the final stages of berthing
- I was unable to turn 180 degrees at slow speed using just the throttles - strong wind & tides but I don't recall this problem with sterndrives

Since the training, I use the throttles to get as close as I can to the berth, then switch to the joystick - but do find that it's far quicker to kill any movement just using the joystick.

 

[Nigelpickin]

That’s interesting Darryl,

My experience was the opposite in that my sterndrive boat really struggled with counter positioning the legs versus the IPS600 system. I guess each boat is set up differently - I wonder if all your software is as up to date as possible and if that’s worth checking?

Usually the fact that the POD legs are further forward than the stern drive version means that rotation and sideways movement require fewer RPM.

FWIW I always find it better to come on to the Joystick as soon as you get to river routine, this gives you time to adjust to the nuanced feathering required when at close quarters - but it’s horses for courses.

Nice to see some IPS and POD fourumites breaking from cover and it’s good for the OP or others thinking about their options to get some first hand opinion.