IPC time to Stand and be Counted

Re: Big v Small

[ QUOTE ]
On their bill they are basically saying that the £4,800 worth of wiring was to connect the Raymarine E120 to the TV system

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me you're joking! The E series is supplied with a composite input cable which will connect up to 4 video sources, else if it's S-video output from the TV system you need to buy the E55062 lead which costs £35.25 RRP inc VAT

Jeez, I'm in the wrong job
 
Re: Big v Small

I am not joking.

Further there are included circa £450 worth of parts that I have asked to be detailed because I cannot see how any of this money was spent.

They say their chap recorded 130 hours of work doing this interface so they charged a nominal 100 hours plus parts!

All I asked for was a lead connected so that i could see if it was worth it. They connected it and it was not worth it - end of subject.

In fact most of the wiring I had speced and paid for had to be fitted after the boat arrived. As did the Sat system and all the TV wiring, the computer network and lots of sockets etc all speced, priced and paid for in advance. The fact is that these were not fitted and basically, as I see it, I am being asked to pay for that work twice.

Apparantly there is no record of what the 100 hours was actually spent on - just the recorded hours against Ocean Deep. They actually seem determined to defend this part of the bill.
 
Re: Big v Small

Paul

now there has at least been some communication from Trader - have you had any explanation for the five months of ignoring your letters and emails?

An apology at least, surely?
 
Re: Big v Small

Erm - 3 weeks to put a cable in?

How long should it have taken me to wire in the external speaker, data run from the Tiller Pilot and control cabling for the eberspacher? .... by that standard I'd still be doing it next april!
I know (from experience) that 5 minute jobs usually take about an hour ... there is always something forgotten - but I didn't pay anywhere near that amount to have all my electronics replaced after the lightning strike - and that included de-stepping the mast and putting back up....

The only prep I did for that job was to remove the sails ! (I complained bitterly at the "troubleshooting ability" which appeared to be non-existent ... but their installation was quick & neat - once they knew what they were replacing! - Peters Shipyard - Chichester)
 
Re: Big v Small

Andy - short answer - No!

I have never had an apology on anything ever.

I always feel that they try to make you feel as if you are acting unreasonably or being fussy - when I first pointed out the survey report and the keel - I was told that i was not understanding etc etc.

Even now they hold out on tiny points. The oil change bill has now been accepted - I await for the official response but I was told that verbally - yet somehow I am still to blame.

I have to fight for each and every point. Its hard work but as long as we communicate I can get there in the end. The very fact I have to struggle like this on a new boat seems to never cross their mind as unusual.

It really is on a different planet stuff. Frankly I think they are in a form of denial when it comes to the publicity. A sort of calm, confident different world. That world has always been there - you have witnessed it yourself as we fought through each and every point. Why anyone should ever want to have this experience when they are buying a new boat, I do not know.

Lets hope I can knock a lot of items off the list next week and lets hope I get full responses to my emails so that we can move forward. It amuses me that Tony Chappell waited 11 days and then handed the commercial side over to James.
 
Re: Big v Small

You say the system was disconnected because the quality wasn't worth the effort

If it comes to the crunch, how about we do it from scratch with a video to record the process? Can you post a photo of the video take-off from the TV system to the E120 and estimate the cable length required?

Lost for words. £4,800 plus £450 parts, you've got them by their short and curlies
 
Re: Big v Small

I am up for that Tom.

I simply explained to them that it was a fairly straight forward simple matter and worth a try. The LCD screens simply did not show the quality, so that was that. I never dreamed of such a bill.

They are saying that someone has to pay for the hundred hours and equipment used. My response letter pointed out to them that it could not be the media computer as this was plugged into three things that i had already paid for. Today they told me on the phone it was the E120 TV display that was the cost and I pointed out that that was abisrd but they are determined not to give in and I am determined to make them prove it.

I think their parts list will be interesting as that might demonstrate something very different.

The way this invoice was presented at the last second with a condition being that i could not take the boat without paying it was *********. I was enough up on the game to see that it was from Emsworth Shipyard who I had never heard from and hence denied it on those grounds. When they re-invoiced it about a month later from Tarquin I replied by return stating that I would take the items one at a time. The first item was the fire pump - it took them 6 months to respond to that letter - they have had no choice to but to agree that i had already paid for it but still no apology - the next items I responded on were this massive bill and the handheld radio which had always been part of the spec. There are more surprises to come on this invoice.
 
Re: Big v Small

I'm glad to see you are getting some movement. It will be interesting to see how thing progress for you next Wednesday. Fingers crossed! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

PS: 3 Man weeks to fit a composite cable is insanely impossible (3 hrs max perhaps for somebody rather incompetent). 1 hr for tea, 1 hr to read manuals, 1 hr to run and connect cable. I had a certified marine engineer fit a 6001 hydraulic auto-pilot, gps plotter, navtex, and dual station DSC VHF to a previous boat of ours in 11 hours. All worked like clockwork too.
 
Re: Big v Small

Yes I wonder what the parts list will show.
The only thing I can think of here is if they tried to do some expensive type standards conversion...broadcast quality...but I could convert it from composite to XGA to RGB and back to composite for less than a third of that invoice.
But if that's the case where are the bits..they want you to pay for them so where are they.
130 hours is just ridiculous.
No more than a day for any decent engineer to try it and find out it's not do-able.
You could build and equip an entire semi pro video studio for that money and in that time.

By the way yer HF3 is fine.
Been RXing faxes all day hooked up to JV Comm on my old Sony.
Given it a bit of a tweak...and you did have the attenuation switch in which wouldnt have helped.

Steve.
 
Re: Big v Small

Tome
Of course on our departure date after 6 months of hell in Emsworth instead of getting flowers or champers we got the invoice to pay without any notice and with the condition that we could not take the boat without paying it!

On the Ocean Deep thread to Tony Chappell you can see me working through the items on that invoice. This invoice was on the back of a whole history of attempted overcharging that no one ever apologised for. For example all the credits on the account, say for an item taken off the spec, were actually charged so the error was double the difference and I was asked to pay the bill straight away. As it was more than I expected I added up all the pages myself and found the error - I reported this to them and the eventaully corrected it and I paid ... never an aplogy though. Then they told me the legs were not included and they would invoice me for them - they were and they had to back track. It was just a nighmare.

I had asked that any orders be done in writing and I asked to clear up any bills well before departure but no, it all happened with an email sent a few minutes before I left the house to collect the boat. Had I not checked my emails as I was leaving I would not have had any notice at all. I suppose that was far more exciting than a bottle of champers and a bunch of flowers for SWMBO. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Andy Ball was witness too much of this invoice saga.
 
I like to think that democracy, the internet and forums are about free speech. If you object to what someone says there are, in most countries, libel and slander laws under which you can sue. But if you cannot speak out in honesty and truth against a private company, what chance against a government.
 
Just as an update.

The current situation is that the commercial matters have not been replied to in 12 days and the fault list in 10 days.

I would have hoped with all the public publication of the emails etc that they would have reacted promptly.

Trader are coming to Swansea next Wednesday and have agreed to answer these points before then and also have an agreed list of actions on Wednesday.

I need them to respond in writing as this clarifies the matter and does not allow either party to go back on what has been already stated. I fear they may prove difficult to actually get from them.

I do feel that after the last 11.5 months of hell they should have the respect to answer my points promptly. That is still not the case.

Everyone of you must, by now, have formed an opinion about this company. I do not think their current actions are convincing many of you to place enough trust in them to order a new boat.

If the public nature has achieved a simplification of the process that is left to take to court then it will have proved worthwhile.
 
Hi Paul
I know this was originally going to be your dream boat and it's all gone completely up the spout so I hope you don't mind my asking for a breakdown of costs to yourself and a re posting of all the problem area photo's . My press freind is finding it hard to find the time to keep looking at all the different posts and websites , although yours is bookmarked . Fingers crossed for the coming visits and I hope things start to improve .
 
On The oceaan Deep Web site there is a photo gallery of some of the problems. There is also a current fault list.

I do not understand you as regards a breakdown of costs?

Basically the boat was circa £980k
I have incurred direct expenses is trips and surveys etc trying to put it right of about £12k to date.
I basically have had very little use out of the boat in its first year - it seems the law entitles me to about 8% of the boat value per annum for loss of use.

If you PM me I can send stuff directly to your friend.
 
Am I being unreasonable by noticing the deafening silence from IPC? Com'on lads you could with a degree of subtlety help here, even a few quite phone calls in the background could trigger a change of direction in this sad saga. I know your not a consumer rights mag, but how often have major fiasco's been resolved quickly as soon as the BBC make a phone call. You've got power, use it wisely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

Bigplumbs
Get stamped out. If you were stamped in
Replies
17
Views
839
PaulRainbow
PaulRainbow
F
Non starting outboard
Replies
4
Views
230
spannerman
S
Stampede
Volvo Penta DP-H steering hydraulic Hose Replacement
Replies
8
Views
292
Stampede
Stampede
ianc1200
Sureseal shaft seal.
2
Replies
20
Views
507
ianc1200
ianc1200

Share this page

Top