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pandos

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Has anyone here ever marketed an invention, especially one related to boat safety which ultimately, in financial terms, would benefit insurers rather than boat owners...

If so any suggestions on how to go about it..

Patent application is in progress, please do not ask specifics about the device..
 
approach the insurers associations - if the idea is that good they would probably do the bootwork for you. think about black boxes for cars, they are marketed/promoted almost entirely by insurers
 
Mmm

I don't know what the average boat premium is. I suspect less than the average car.

I don't know how many boats there are, I know less than cars.

I don't know the average claim but I suspect less than cars.

I don't know what increases risks of claims but probably not the owner age, gender or engine size.

To be of interest to an insurer...let's plug some numbers:

Let's assume average policy costs £200.
Let's assume they have 1000 policies.
They have 10 claims per year. With an average claim of £10,000 per claim.
So they get £200k income and pay out £100k in claims. The rest covers operating costs and profit.

There are two ways you can reduce their risk. Reduce claim value or reduce frequency of claims. Let's get crazy and assume you can do both ... Maybe you are going to go for a bumper round every yacht stoping them damaging each other and if they do helping them float.

You reduce the claim average to £5k and claims to 5. You save the insurer £75k.

But you can't install a bumper for <£75 per boat... Even over a 20 year life... That's £1500 ... You wouldn't get a bumper for that...
 
In addition to ShinyShoe's points, you'd need to understand what is the cause and number of the insurance claims and how that cost compares to the value of the whole boat. A broken mast can cost as much to fix as a hole in the hull or a rudder ripped off the transom or shredded sails and any of these can be more than the value of the boat. I know that with the number of 40 year old boats in the water, the best "insurance saving" idea would be an explosive through-hull that instantly sinks the whole damn thing.
 
ShinyShoe said:
My point being you need to understand the numbers to know if invention will work economically
Click to expand...

Cost of each unit to supply about €100 additional items used for fitting €100... lifetime of unit say 20 years. Economically the numbers stack up...

How many boats a year come off moorings and end up seriously damaged or sunk.? If anyone can put a figure on this it would be really good... or point to a reliable source...

Defensive Patent Insurance is a different issue, hadnot really considered it, I think I would need to go into production before I would be infringing on another's IP so plenty of time to consider that, but PCUK is correct in terms of it being necessary..... before potentially infringing..... unless you are skint already....

Offensive patent insurance would not be worth my while and will in any case be a matter for someone else, if I can sell on my Application......
 
Kind of been there. Marketed a new type of rope cutter for a few years now, it has saved insurers from costly claims, and commercial boats are advised to use them by mca. I've approached a few insurance companies to offer discounts to their customers in return for the marketing help they can give, one is interested at the moment.

I've learnt that commercial and military customers will more happily pay for premium safety products than leisure boat owners so tend to focus our efforts there.
 
pandos said:
Cost of each unit to supply about €100 additional items used for fitting €100... lifetime of unit say 20 years. Economically the numbers stack up...
Click to expand...

So 10eur / year. But what is the cost of not having it...

How many boats a year come off moorings and end up seriously damaged or sunk.? If anyone can put a figure on this it would be really good... or point to a reliable source...
Click to expand...
Without that the economics aren't complete...

Because you need number of incidents, claim per incident and what you can reduce that to. I.e. can you prevent claims completely or lessen the impact. But if I was an insurer I'd want proof for lessen impact... ...boat off mooring - why? Could it be saved before hitting something or is it off mooring in F10 gale and not able to be secured...
 
Neil_Y said:
I've approached a few insurance companies to offer discounts to their customers in return for the marketing help they can give, one is interested at the moment.
.
Click to expand...

Interesting,,,,, did you just go company to company or is there a body that has a research or testing capacity that the companies use/ listen to.

How does one get the MCA to advise use of a product or is it just a case of something so good eventually becomes more noticable by its absence, and it becomes unreasonable to not have one,,,,
 
ShinyShoe said:
So 10eur / year. But what is the cost of not having it...


Without that the economics aren't complete...

Because you need number of incidents, claim per incident and what you can reduce that to. I.e. can you prevent claims completely or lessen the impact. But if I was an insurer I'd want proof for lessen impact... ...boat off mooring - why? Could it be saved before hitting something or is it off mooring in F10 gale and not able to be secured...
Click to expand...

yes the economics are not complete and the figures to fill in the gaps would be welcome, but I have seen enough boats that have come off moorings and ended up on rocks to know that many are lost in that way,

Twice my boats went walkies once in dead calm from a relatively new mooring, inexplicably the riser failed a few feet up from the end....

On the other ocassion the boat dragged the mooring, which had been in use for 12 years (renewed shackles riser etc regularly) in a f12,,,

On both ocassions it was just luck that nothing really went amiss.....

I have also seen umpteen boats which were written off, after they came off their moorings, but in reality statistics will be very interesting but perhaps impossible to obtain.
 
Inventions are about the hardest way to make money. If you patent it and its any good you need to enforce the patent against the big boys. Once you have a really effective prototype you need to get it made in economic quantities and sell this new product to people who do not know you (tough call). You have to be able to risk litigation if the device fails. Universities come up with many super inventions but unless a seriously enterprising leader puts heart and soul into it for years then it will not fly. If its your life's passion and you will dedicate yourself to its success for years then perhaps go for it but remember there is not much of a market for inventions - you have to make the market or at least an open channel to it and have plenty of funds to invest.
How do I know all this ? - in the past I raised a seedcorn fund for new inventions and was involved with the emerging companies for years
 
Well good luck to you.

Agree with Halo, launching inventions is very hard. Also, it is often who you know rather than however good an idea is.

That red rubber bung that was supposed to go through hull fittings had some success, (I think? and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole). (Don't know if it ever paid off though).

Your idea sounds as though it is something to do with keeping a boat on its mooring. I'd consider buying it (as I am about to brave the elements and take a lot of new chain out into the mud and carry out a load of work I am not fond of).

Wish you well.
 
Oh, I think the patent system is a damn flawed system.

It is simply a very old system that simply carries out some research to check an idea is novel etc. (and the IPOffice fails - proved by Trevor Bayliss' wind up radio patent being revoked after many years).

The IPO charge money to simply record 'inventiveness' (if the patent is written correctly and THAT costs money - becoming a patent attorney is a good way of making money !)

The IPOffice offer little protection and certainly do not help fight off people that infringe. It is in its simplest form a recording office.

WHY a better and cheaper organisation cannot replace them is something I often wonder about (as does the Inventor in Residence at the British Library).

In the end, an inventor needs money to start a project off and then protect it and then keep protecting it and then fight any battles that come along.

Pain in the butt. And does not help with one's stress levels.

Take the story of the inventor of the ELECTRONIC intermediate windscreen wiper blade (turned into a film); stolen by Ford - according to the film, ruined inventor's marriage and took him years to win the claim against Ford and get his millions.
 
pandos said:
Cost of each unit to supply about €100 additional items used for fitting €100... lifetime of unit say 20 years. Economically the numbers stack up...

How many boats a year come off moorings and end up seriously damaged or sunk.? If anyone can put a figure on this it would be really good... or point to a reliable source...

Defensive Patent Insurance is a different issue, hadnot really considered it, I think I would need to go into production before I would be infringing on another's IP so plenty of time to consider that, but PCUK is correct in terms of it being necessary..... before potentially infringing..... unless you are skint already....

Offensive patent insurance would not be worth my while and will in any case be a matter for someone else, if I can sell on my Application......
Click to expand...

Pants, in Oz, have done some numbers but I don't recall what they are. Most claims are operator error (or more brutal - stupidity). Mooring/anchor claims are not significant (which is why I asked). There is no interest in dropping premiums for yacht with NG anchor, for instance. There is no interest in requiring bigger anchors. The big growth area is in lightening strikes, which I found surprising (but it is not so large that there is any insistance to have protection).

If an invention will reduce stupidity you might find some interest.

Jonathan
 
I am fairly calm about whether or not I make money on it, it would be a bonus and I will not be saying no,
But I am not going to invest anymore than a few grand in it and that is just attorney fees so that I get hands on experience of the way the professionals deal with applications,( I'll make that back some day by advising on a patent dispute at some stage I hope, I did IP law in my primary degree but the college did not do patents so it is all a bit greek to me....but I am old enough and educated enough to know that there are unknowns in every field that exist just to trip up the unwary)

I agree the system is a bit archaic but at least in the UK there is some value for the fees paid and some public libraries with help... if I had seen that I might have spent a week near one and saved myself the attorney fees,,, but then the real way to monetising an invention for me is sale of the application or licensing, at an early stage, to a big player who is in some way decent, and it is at that stage that an attorney can become useful especially writing licence agreements etc and the procedures and strategies for continuing protection.

It is a bit of an indulgance and a bit of fun but at the same time it is a useful object and might be taken up commercially... if I cannot sell it I'll simply put it into the public domain....in any case I'll see my name as inventor on a patent application and can tick that off my bucket list,,,

then write the book, circumnavigate, drive to china, drive to timbuctoo, see the pyramids.....etc etc....
 
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Sailingsaves said:
Oh, I think the patent system is a damn flawed system.

It is simply a very old system that simply carries out some research to check an idea is novel etc. (and the IPOffice fails - proved by Trevor Bayliss' wind up radio patent being revoked after many years).
......Take the story of the inventor of the ELECTRONIC intermediate windscreen wiper blade (turned into a film); stolen by Ford - according to the film, ruined inventor's marriage and took him years to win the claim against Ford and get his millions.
Click to expand...
according to the telegraph Bayliss sold his shares in the company which had created a new invention using rechargable batteries instead of a spring.... nothing unfortunate or wrong in that.

Kearns made millions from his invention having been through the courts, and having refused a settlement, the argument he sucessfully made ...ie that a combination of existing tecnologies can be inventive is probably the same principle that separated Bayliss's radio from an ordinary radio and the rechargeable version from his....

I think the system works pretty well but is often reported inaccurately and then appears unfair... the really bad thing are inventions that are being sat on rather than used thus preventing mankind from accessing the invention....

few of us would try to take out our own appendix, even after googling it and watching it on youtube and chatting to a guy in the pub who used to clean the cadavars in the medical school.... yet we feel that we should be able to do many things in the legal world... simply because we have the legal right to do so.....
 
First test was to get it on to RNLI boats, they evaluate new marine products if it can benefit them, then I got it on a local pilot boat. References are more useful than tests, but the marine industry is very slow to change. There must be many small fishing boats on moorings, and they will know of the costs of mooring failures. So I'd get a few on those boats as references, but then probably 3 or 4years later you will be able to say it works and approach insurance companies. I think some may have higher premiums for boats on moorings in the winter?

Check that with fisherman.

Good luck it's very satisfying going from first fitting to a 12m motor boat in Dartmouth to supplying the US Navy and Christensen yachts. As well as RNLI
 
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